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[PRE-ROLL]

MARIA: HOLA, DEAR LISTENER, IT’S MARIA HINOJOSA. WE ARE PREMIERING RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW, A NEW SERIES THAT’S GOING TO TAKE US ON A JOURNEY, WELL, TO GET TO KNOW THIS ONE PERSON WHO I’VE KIND OF BEEN OBSESSING ABOUT. THIS PERSON IS AT THE CENTER OF AN INTERNATIONAL INTRIGUE. BASICALLY, DEAR LISTENER, IT’S LIKE TRUE CRIME MEETS TELENOVELA. I’M SERIOUS. THIS GUY’S STORY IS GOING TO CONNECT —LISTEN TO THIS— THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, THE WAR ON DRUGS, AND THE CARTELS WHO ARE GETTING ABSURDLY RICH BY FEEDING A VERY PROFITABLE MARKET.

AND YOU KNOW WHERE THAT MARKET IS? IT’S RIGHT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. SO IN A MINUTE, I’M GOING TO TELL YOU WHO THIS PERSON IS, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU’RE LIKE, “WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. WHO IS THIS?” BUT THIS SERIES IS NOT GOING TO BE JUST ABOUT DEEP INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM. IT’S ALSO GOING TO BE ACTUALLY REALLY EMOTIONAL. IT’S GOING TO BE SUPER PERSONAL.

PENILEY: AND SOMETIMES IT’S GOING TO BE SAD OR EVEN ENRAGING AND ALSO KIND OF ABSURD.

MARIA: BY THE WAY, THAT VOICE IS EMMY AWARD-WINNING INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST PENILEY RAMÍREZ. AND SHE’S GOING TO BE MY CO-HOST ON THIS FABULOUS NEW ADVENTURE WE’RE GOING TO TAKE YOU ON, MY DEAR LISTENERS. SO, HOLA PENI.

PENILEY: HELLO, FUTURO LISTENER. I’M SO HAPPY TO BRING YOU ALONG WITH MARIA, THE VERY FIRST PODCAST SERIES OF FUTURO INVESTIGATES.

MARIA: SO PENILEY IS MY CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF OUR UNIT THAT WE STARTED THAT’S GOING TO DO SPECIAL PROJECTS AND INVESTIGATIONS AT FUTURO MEDIA. AND FOR THIS PODCAST, PENILEY AND I ARE GOING TO DIVE DEEP INTO THE WAR ON DRUGS. NOW, IT’S A MULTIBILLION DOLLAR OPERATION, YOU KNOW THIS, THERE ARE OBSCURE WINNERS. VERY OFTEN THE LOSERS ARE IGNORED, WHETHER THEY’RE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES OR IN MEXICO. BUT ONE QUICK THING, BECAUSE WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, IN THIS SERIES, WE ARE GOING TO LAUGH. BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THIS STORY IS VERY SERIOUS – IT DOES INVOLVE VERY, VERY SERIOUS ISSUES– BUT IT’S ALSO A LITTLE CRAZY. AND SO WE DECIDED THAT IN ORDER TO GET THROUGH RECORDING SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WE NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING NOT A LITTLE DIFFERENT, VERY DIFFERENT FOR JOURNALISTS. SO HERE WE GO. WE BROUGHT A BOTTLE OF TEQUILA. VAMOS.

[COCKTAIL HOUR MUSIC]

MARIA: OOH, THAT’S A- OKAY, THAT’S A BIG ONE. THAT’S FOR YOU.

[POURING SFX]

[LAUGHTER]

MARIA: THIS ONE’S FOR ME. THIS IS GONNA BE HALF.

PENILEY: SALUD.

MARIA: SALUD.

[COCKTAIL HOUR MUSIC STARTS TO FADE]

MARIA: OKAY. PENILEY, SO WE HAVE OUR TEQUILA, AND WE’VE ALREADY SAID THAT YOU’RE THIS INCREDIBLE JOURNALIST. I MEAN, LA VERDAD, LA VERDAD, YOU’RE A BADASS. I HAVE ALL KIND OF RESPECT FOR YOU, BUT I THINK LISTENERS NEED TO KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT YOU. SO, PENILEY, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF. INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

PENILEY: WELL, I WAS BORN IN CUBA AND ACTUALLY MY PARENTS LOVE THE BEATLES, SO THEY DECIDED TO CALL ME PENILEY. BUT THE CUBAN WAY. SO IT’S NOT “PENNY LANE” AS THE BEATLES SONG, BUT P-E-N-I-L-E-Y.

MARIA: PENILEY.

PENILEY: PENILEY SO I’M THE TROPICAL VERSION OF PENNY LANE. THEN I MOVED TO MEXICO WHEN I WAS 14 YEARS OLD. THAT’S WHERE I BECAME A JOURNALIST. AND NOW I HAVE BEEN LIVING IN THE U.S. FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS. AND THIS PODCAST SERIES IS REALLY EXCITING FOR ME BECAUSE FOR TEN YEARS I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS STORY I’M ABOUT TO TELL YOU. AND AS YOU KNOW, MARIA, THE STORY STARTED IN MEXICO, BUT NOW IT’S MOVED TO THE U.S.

MARIA: RIGHT. AND IT DIDN’T JUST MOVE FROM MEXICO TO THE UNITED STATES. IT MOVED LITERALLY TO OUR DOORSTEPS RIGHT HERE TO NEW YORK CITY, RIGHT WHERE WE ARE RECORDING THIS PODCAST.

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: BUT THERE IS ONE THING I’M WORRIED ABOUT.

MARIA: WHAT IS THAT?

PENILEY: WELL, YOU KNOW, I’M WORRIED ABOUT MY ACCENT. CELIA CRUZ, THE CUBAN SINGER, SHE SAID:

[ARCHIVE]

CELIA CRUZ: REMEMBER THAT MY ENGLISH IS NOT VERY GOOD-LOOKING.

PENILEY: AND I FEEL THAT THAT APPLIES TO ME. MY ENGLISH IS NOT VERY GOOD-LOOKING.

MARIA: OKAY, WAIT. LOOK IT IS THAT WE WANT TO NORMALIZE ACCENTS IN AUDIO, IN RADIO, IN EVERY PART OF OUR LIVES. SO WE’RE VERY HAPPY THAT YOU’RE HERE WITH US, PENILEY. BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, I’M A JOKESTER, SO DON’T BE UPSET IF I POKE A LITTLE FUN AT YOUR ENGLISH. OKAY. I’M SORRY.

PENILEY: DON’T WORRY. I WILL MAKE FUN OF YOUR SPANISH.

MARIA: TOUCHÉ.

PENILEY: WELL, MARIA, IF WE AGREE, THEN WE CAN JUST FINISH THIS AND FOCUS ON THE SUBJECT.

MARIA: WE’RE GOING TO- WE’RE GOING TO DO WHAT?

PENILEY: YEAH. FOCUS ON THE SERIES.

MARIA: FUCK… WE’RE GOING TO FOCUS ON OUR SERIES. OKAY. THIS, DEAR LISTENER, IS EPISODE ONE OF OUR NEW SERIES, “USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA.”

[THEME SONG]

[ARCHIVE]

NEWS ANCHOR 1: THE MAN WHO RAN MEXICO’S FEDERAL POLICE FOR YEARS HAS BEEN ARRESTED RIGHT HERE IN DALLAS.

NEWS ANCHOR 2: HE’S ACCUSED OF TAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN BRIBES FROM NONE OTHER THAN DRUG CARTEL KINGPIN EL CHAPO.

PENILEY: THIS STORY REVOLVES AROUND THIS GUY CALLED GENARO GARCÍA LUNA, BUT THIS IS NOT JUST A STORY ABOUT A MAN. IT’S ABOUT SOMETHING BIGGER: THE WAR ON DRUGS, AND THE MANY INDIVIDUALS AND BUSINESSES THAT PROFIT FROM IT— LEGALLY AND ILLEGALLY. AND THIS IS A WAR THAT THE U.S. AND MEXICO CLAIM THEY HAVE BEEN FIGHTING TOGETHER FOR DECADES.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: SO, IT’S ALSO ABOUT THE PUBLIC FUNDS THAT, UNKNOWN TO U.S. TAXPAYERS, HAVE FUNDED BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRIES THAT OPERATE AROUND THE WAR ON DRUGS.

PENILEY: AND ACTUALLY, I WROTE A BOOK USING THIS INVESTIGATIVE ANGLE, AND THE BOOK IS CALLED LOS MILLONARIOS DE LA GUERRA, THE MILLIONAIRES OF WAR, BECAUSE GARCÍA LUNA, FROM HIS POSITION IN THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT WAS AT THE CENTER OF THAT WAR, AND HE BECAME VERY RICH, LIKE SUPER RICO. ALL WHILE HE SERVED AS MEXICO’S PUBLIC SECURITY SECRETARY.

MARIA: OKAY, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. SO LET’S JUST UNDERSCORE THAT. SO HE BECOMES SUPER WEALTHY WHILE HE’S SERVING AS MEXICO’S PUBLIC SECURITY SECRETARY. JUST … WE NEED TO UNDERLINE THAT.

PENILEY: HE WAS THE MOST INFLUENTIAL OFFICIAL IN MEXICO IN FELIPE CALDERON’S ADMINISTRATION FROM 2006 TO 2012.

MARIA: SO HE WAS REALLY THE RIGHT HAND FOR THE MEXICAN PRESIDENT. BUT NOW HE’S ACCUSED OF WORKING WITH THE INFAMOUS DRUG LORD JOAQUIN “EL CHAPO” GUZMAN AND THE SINALOA CARTEL TO HELP THEM SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO, YES, THE UNITED STATES.

PENILEY: AND THIS IS A STORY ALSO WITH A STRONG U.S. CONNECTION, BECAUSE IT WAS THANKS TO THAT U.S. CONNECTIONS THAT GARCÍA LUNA WAS ABLE TO BECOME ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL MEN IN MEXICO. AND ANY TIME HE FACED ANY CRITICISM OR SUSPICIONS, THEIR CONCLUSIONS WAS ALWAYS THE SAME. HOW COULD GARCÍA LUNA BE CORRUPT IF HE WORKED SO CLOSE TO THE U.S.?

MARIA: SO THAT’S ALSO SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE UNDERSCORED, RIGHT? THE UNITED STATES, IN THE PICTURE OF THE DRUG WAR, THEY’RE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT. THEY’RE PROVIDING ALL THE MONEY. THEY’RE DOING ALL THESE GOOD THINGS. SO IF GARCÍA LUNA WAS WORKING SO CLOSELY WITH THE UNITED STATES, THERE’S NO WAY THAT HE COULD BE TAINTED. I MEAN, THAT’S WHAT THEY WOULD SAY.

SO ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I BECAME OBSESSED WITH THIS STORY LIKE YOU IS BECAUSE IF YOU REDUCE IT, YOU KNOW, IT BECOMES BASICALLY TRUE CRIME MEETS TELENOVELA. TELENOVELAS CAN OFTEN HAVE THESE HAPPY MOMENTS. YOU KNOW, HAPPY ENDINGS. PENILEY, YOU’VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS STORY FOR A DECADE, BUT IT ALWAYS HASN’T BEEN A HAPPY STORY FOR YOU.

PENILEY: NO, SOMETIMES IT’S BEEN A DANGEROUS STORY. SOMETIMES IT’S BEEN HARD TO INVESTIGATE. GARCÍA LUNA’S BEEN THERE IN MY LIFE FOR THE PAST DECADE. AND FOR EXAMPLE, DO YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU AND I MET FOR THE FIRST TIME, MARIA?

MARIA: SO IF I’M NOT MISTAKEN, YOU WERE INVITED TO OUR FIRST LIVE SHOW RECORDING IN MEXICO CITY. IT WAS A VERY BIG DEAL. WE WERE RECORDING IN SPANISH AND IT WAS FOR THE PODCAST THAT I CO-ANCHOR CALLED “IN THE THICK.”

[ITT ARCHIVE]

MARIA: EN EL ESTUDIO CON NOSOTROS, PENILEY RAMÍREZ. ELLA ES REPORTERA INVESTIGATIVA CON UNIVISION. HOLA PENILEY!

PENILEY: HOLA!

PENILEY: ACTUALLY I WAS SO EXCITED TO MEET YOU. BUT WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW IS THAT A FEW DAYS AFTER WE RECORDED THAT SHOW IN NOVEMBER OF 2018, SOMETHING REALLY CRUCIAL HAPPENED IN THE STORY OF GENARO GARCÍA LUNA. HE WAS MENTIONED IN THE TRIAL OF JOAQUIN “EL CHAPO” GUZMAN HERE IN NEW YORK CITY.

[ARCHIVE OF EL CHAPO TRIAL]

NEWS ANCHOR: IN HIS TESTIMONY, THE FORMER CARTEL ACCOUNTANT SAID HE PERSONALLY DELIVERED BRIBES TO MEXICO’S FORMER FEDERAL SECURITY CHIEF.

PENILEY: SO FOR YEARS, PEOPLE IN MEXICO AND IN THE U.S. HAD BEEN SUSPICIOUS OF GARCÍA LUNA. BUT IN THAT MOMENT DURING THE TRIAL, A LEADER OF THE SINALOA CARTEL TESTIFIED UNDER OATH THAT THE CARTEL HAS PAID MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN BRIBES TO GARCÍA LUNA HIMSELF IN EXCHANGE FOR HIS HELP IN SMUGGLING DRUGS INTO THE UNITED STATES. AND AGAIN, THIS WAS DURING THE TIME WHEN GARCÍA LUNA WAS THE TOP SECURITY OFFICIAL IN MEXICO AND A CLOSE U.S. ALLY.

MARIA: SO YOU HAVE THIS WITNESS WHO’S FROM THE SINALOA CARTEL. HE’S ON THE STAND AND HE IS SAYING, “GARCÍA LUNA, OH, YEAH, HE WAS WORKING FOR THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT. HE WAS A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL, BUT HE WAS ALSO WORKING FOR EL CHAPO.”

PENILEY: AND AFTER HE WAS MENTIONED IN THE TRIAL, I WROTE A COLUMN. I’M ALSO A COLUMNIST.

MARIA: SO YOU’RE A MOTHER, A WIFE, A WRITER, AN AUTHOR, PODCASTER, COLUMNIST. ¿QUÉ MÁS?

PENILEY: TELEVISION PRODUCER.

MARIA: TELEVISION PRODUCER AND COOK. NO, YOU DON’T COOK.

PENILEY: I COOK, BUT I DON’T DO MOLE, SADLY. I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO DO MOLE.

MARIA: OKAY. AND YOU DANCE. OKAY.

PENILEY: AND I DANCE. AND IN NOVEMBER 2018, I WROTE A COLUMN CALLED “THE UNTOUCHABLE MR. LUNA.”

[MUSIC]

AND THIS COLUMN WAS ABOUT HOW, IF EVERYTHING THEY SAID ABOUT HIM WAS TRUE, WHY THIS GUY IS NOT IN JAIL? WHY THIS GUY STILL WALKING AROUND THE U.S.? BECAUSE HE WAS LIVING IN THE U.S. AT THIS POINT, SO WHY WAS NOBODY DOING ANYTHING ABOUT HIM?

[MUSIC]

MARIA: DEAR LISTENER, THE TRUTH IS, I BECAME OBSESSED WITH THIS GUY TOO: GENARO GARCÍA LUNA. BUT MY OBSESSION ABOUT THIS DUDE CAME THROUGH A VERY DIFFERENT ROUTE THAN PENI. OKAY. I DID NOT INVESTIGATE HIM FOR YEARS. I DIDN’T LOSE SLEEP WRITING COLUMNS. YOU KNOW, I DIDN’T WATCH THE TRIAL OF EL CHAPO. I MEAN, I DIDN’T CARE ABOUT EL CHAPO AT ALL. I NEVER HAD, BECAUSE TO ME, HE ALWAYS SEEMED LIKE A SCAPEGOAT. ONE MORE REASON TO THROW MEXICANS, ALL OF US, UNDER THE BUS, YOU KNOW, IN THE UNITED STATES. RIGHT. BUT DURING THE PANDEMIC, I ENDED UP IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC AT SOME POINT, AND NETFLIX WAS SHOWING DIFFERENT SHOWS THAN WHAT I USUALLY WATCH IN THE U.S., AND SO I SAW THE EL CHAPO SERIES POP UP AND I WAS LIKE, “ALL RIGHT, WELL, LOOK, IT’S A LONG SERIES. LET ME JUST WATCH THIS.”

[ARCHIVE OF EL CHAPO, NETFLIX]

VOICE 1: A QUE SE DEDICA?

VOICE 2: SOY AGRICULTOR.

VOICE 3: ¿PARA QUÉ QUIERES LAS ARMAS?

VOICE 2: NO, SEÑOR. YO NUNCA HE USADO ARMAS.

MARIA: NOW, THAT SERIES WAS ACTUALLY BASED ON A LOT OF THE WORK THAT YOU, PENI, DID WHILE YOU WERE AN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT AT UNIVISION.

[ARCHIVE OF EL CHAPO, NETFLIX]

VOICE 1: PORQUE NO ME DICES DE UNA VEZ QUE QUIERES, CHAPO.

VOICE 2: NÓMBREME PATRÓN.

VOICE 1: PUES VAS A ESPERAR MÁS.

MARIA: AND TO ME, THE INTERESTING CHARACTER WAS NOT EL CHAPO, THOUGH THE ACTOR WAS GREAT. BUT THEN THIS GUY, WHO IN THE TV SERIES IS CALLED…

CONRADO SOL. I BECOME OBSESSED WITH THIS GUY.

PENILEY: RIGHT, AND THE NEWS MEDIA IN MEXICO CONNECTED THE CONRADO SOL CHARACTER TO GENARO GARCÍA LUNA. SEVERAL ARTICLES WERE PUBLISHED ABOUT THE SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO.

MARIA: SO, GARCÍA LUNA, THE MOON, AND THE CHARACTER IN THE NETFLIX SERIES WAS CALLED CONRADO SOL. SOL IS “SUN.” IT’S JUST A SILLY PLAY ON WORDS.

BUT, BASICALLY, IN THE SERIES, CONRADO SOL WAS THE HIGHEST RANKING MEXICAN LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL AND HE WAS WORKING WITH EL CHAPO. AND HE WAS REPRESENTING EL CHAPO, YES, WITH THE DEA AND THE FBI AND EVERYONE ELSE. SO AS I WAS WATCHING THIS, I WAS JUST LIKE, “WHAT IS THIS?” I COULDN’T BELIEVE IT.

AND WHEN I REALIZED IT WAS THIS ACTUAL REAL PERSON WHO IS ACCUSED OF WORKING WITH EL CHAPO, I WAS COMPLETELY FASCINATED.

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: SO WHAT’S REALLY STRIKING ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA IS THAT HE CAME FROM A VERY UNREMARKABLE BACKGROUND, BUT HE WAS ABLE TO RISE TO POWER VERY, VERY QUICKLY. GARCÍA LUNA IS NOW IN HIS FIFTIES. HE WAS BORN IN MEXICO CITY IN 1968 AND IN THE LATE 80S, WHEN HE WAS 21 YEARS OLD, HE ENTERED THE CISEN. THE CISEN IS THE CENTER FOR INVESTIGATION AND NATIONAL SECURITY, WHICH IS THE EQUIVALENT TO THE CIA IN MEXICO. HE STARTED AS A SECURITY AGENT, WHICH MEANS BASICALLY A LOW RANKING SPY. BUT FROM THERE, IN JUST ABOUT A DECADE, IN THE YEAR 2000, THE GUY BECOMES THE HEAD OF THE FEDERAL INVESTIGATIVE AGENCY. SO THE EQUIVALENT TO THE DIRECTOR OF THE FBI. AND JUST SIX YEARS AFTER THAT, HE WAS APPOINTED SECRETARY OF PUBLIC SECURITY BY THEN PRESIDENT FELIPE CALDERON. THIS WAS THE HIGHEST POINT OF HIS CAREER.

MARIA: SO FROM BASICALLY BEING A NOBODY, SUDDENLY HE IS NOW THE SECRETARY OF PUBLIC SECURITY UNDER MEXICAN PRESIDENT FELIPE CALDERON. BUT WHAT EXACTLY DOES THIS MEAN, SECRETARY OF PUBLIC SECURITY?

PENILEY: WELL, IT IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL CABINET POSITIONS IN MEXICO, ACTUALLY. IT’S SIMILAR TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, BUT WITH MORE RESPONSIBILITIES BECAUSE THE SECRETARY OF PUBLIC SECURITY WAS IN CHARGE OF THE MEXICAN EQUIVALENT TO THE FBI, THE NSA, THE DEA AND THE PRISON SYSTEMS ALL AT ONCE. SO GARCÍA LUNA WAS KIND OF UNTOUCHABLE IN MEXICO.

BUT THEN HE LEAVES, MARIA. JUST ONE DAY AFTER HE LEFT PUBLIC OFFICE, HE ALSO LEFT THE COUNTRY AND MOVED TO MIAMI.

MARIA: SO THAT’S A LITTLE BIT WEIRD. WHO LEAVES THE COUNTRY LITERALLY A DAY AFTER YOUR TERM ENDS? IT’S STRANGE, RIGHT?

PENILEY: YES. AND HE MOVED WITH HIS WIFE AND TWO CHILDREN TO A $3 MILLION HOUSE IN MIAMI.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: OKAY. BUT IT’S 2022 NOW. WHERE IS GARCÍA LUNA RIGHT NOW?

PENILEY: RIGHT NOW, HE IS SITTING IN A DETENTION CENTER IN BROOKLYN. AND JUST A FEW WEEKS FROM NOW, GARCÍA LUNA IS GOING TO FACE THE U.S. JUSTICE SYSTEM IN A TRIAL HERE IN NEW YORK CITY.

[MIDROLL]

MARIA: I KNOW THAT MAYBE FOR YOU, DEAR LISTENER, HEARING ABOUT A TRIAL OF AN ALLEGEDLY CORRUPT MEXICAN OFFICIAL, YOU KNOW, IT’S LIKE, HO HUM, IT’S BEEN DONE BEFORE. BUT HERE’S THE CONTEXT FOR MY OBSESSION WITH THIS STORY. AND IT ACTUALLY GOES BACK TO, I GUESS, CUE THE MUSIC…

[MUSIC]

…BACK WHEN I WAS A LITTLE GIRL IN THE 1970S. I WAS TRAVELING FROM CHICAGO TO MEXICO, BASICALLY STARTING IN THE MID 1960S UNTIL THE 1980S. AND WHEN I WOULD GO BACK TO MEXICO, THIS IS WHERE I LEARNED THAT THERE WAS ESSENTIALLY NO DEMOCRACY IN THE COUNTRY WHERE I WAS BORN, BECAUSE I WAS BORN IN MEXICO. YOU KNOW, BASICALLY, VOTING, IT DIDN’T MATTER. AND THIS WAS REALLY WEIRD FOR ME TO FIND THIS OUT FROM MY COUSINS. THEY WERE LIKE, “NO, WE DON’T VOTE, BECAUSE HERE IN MEXICO WE HAVE THIS THING CALLED ‘EL DEDAZO,’ THE BIG FINGER.” I WAS LIKE, “WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?” IT MEANS THAT BASICALLY THE OUTGOING PRESIDENT, NOT THE PEOPLE, WOULD USE HIS BIG FINGER TO CHOOSE WHO WOULD LEAD THE COUNTRY NEXT. IT WAS, I BELIEVED, THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF HOW THINGS WERE SUPPOSED TO WORK IN THE UNITED STATES.

BUT THEN IN 1972…

[ARCHIVE]

NEWS ANCHOR: GOOD EVENING. FIVE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH BREAKING INTO THE HEADQUARTERS OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

MARIA: WATERGATE HAPPENED. AND PENILEY, THIS REALLY IMPACTED ME PERSONALLY. I MEAN, I WAS A KID. ESSENTIALLY, IT BROKE THE BUBBLE THAT I WAS LIVING IN. RIGHT. THE BELIEF THAT THERE’S NO CORRUPTION HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. AND WITH WATERGATE, IT WAS LIKE, NO, THE CORRUPTION EXISTS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND IT EXISTS ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP OF THE WHITE HOUSE. AND LOOK, WE’RE RECORDING THIS IN THE YEAR 2022. WE HAVE ALL LIVED THROUGH THE JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE HEARINGS, AND THEY HAVE SHOWED US ONCE AGAIN THE SAME THING. CORRUPTION IS RIGHT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, AND WE CAN EITHER FACE IT OR WE CAN CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: AND SEEING THE REPORTING OF WOODWARD AND BERNSTEIN WITH DEEP THROAT AND WHAT IT ACCOMPLISHED FOR THIS COUNTRY, FOR OUR DEMOCRACY. I MEAN, THIS KIND OF JOURNALISM CHANGED MY LIFE.

PENILEY: AND ACTUALLY, MARIA, I AM SO OBSESSED WITH ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN TOO.

[ARCHIVE OF “ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN”] 

VOICE: WOODWARD. BERNSTEIN. YOU’RE BOTH ON THE STORY.

MARIA: OH MY GOD, I LOVE THIS. I MEAN, THE MOVIE, IT’S JUST I LOVE IT. I CAN’T BELIEVE WE’RE OBSESSED WITH THE SAME THING.

PENILEY: YEAH, AND I HAVE MY OWN DEEP THROAT IN MY BOOK.

MARIA: YOU HAVE YOUR OWN SECRET SECRET INFORMANT FOR ALL OF THIS WORK ON GARCÍA LUNA?

PENILEY: YEAH. SO I HAVE A SOURCE. WE HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH FOR YEARS NOW. THE NAME I PICKED FOR THIS PERSON WAS CAMERON. WE WILL KNOW MORE ABOUT CAMERON IN THIS PODCAST.

[MUSIC]

MARIA:  I JUST LOVE THE FACT THAT BOTH OF US ARE OBSESSED WITH WOODWARD AND BERNSTEIN, THAT THEY IMPACTED OUR LIVES. RIGHT? CHANGED OUR LIVES. AND NOW, WE’RE EMBARKING ON OUR OWN INVESTIGATIVE PODCAST, AND WE’RE DOING IT OWN WAY.

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: SO, MARIA.

MARIA YES?

PENILEY: THE CONNECTIONS THAT WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE AS INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS TO TRY TO COVER CORRUPTION, IT’S NOT JUST IMPORTANT FOR US. THEY WERE ACTUALLY VERY IMPORTANT TO GARCÍA LUNA HIMSELF BECAUSE HE HAD BUILT HIS IMAGE AS A CLOSE PERSON TO THE UNITED STATES. IT WAS REALLY PART OF HIS CHARACTER, EL PERSONAJE, THAT HE CREATED FOR HIMSELF.

MARIA: SO WHAT YOU’RE BASICALLY SAYING IS THAT GARCÍA LUNA WAS THROWING HIS PROXIMITY TO THE UNITED STATES AS HIS MAJOR POINT OF CREDIBILITY WITHIN MEXICO. AND EVERYBODY IN MEXICO WAS LIKE NO PUES, PUES ESTA LIMPIO. HE’S CLEAN. HE WORKS WITH THE UNITED STATES.

PENILEY: BUT THEN HE WAS MENTIONED IN EL CHAPO’S TRIAL. AND REMEMBER, MARIA, BY THAT POINT, GARCÍA LUNA WAS LIVING IN THE U.S. SO IT WAS A BIG SCANDAL ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER. AND WHAT HE DID? HE WENT BACK TO MEXICO AND HE GAVE A BUNCH OF INTERVIEWS.

[NEWS ARCHIVE]

GARCÍA LUNA: SÍ, ES TOTALMENTE ABSURDO. ES MENTIRA. ES UNA INFAMIA Y ASÍ LO SEÑALO.

PENILEY: SAYING THAT “OH, THAT’S ABSURD. THAT’S A LIE. I’M GONNA SUE THIS PERSON BECAUSE HE SAID THAT ABOUT ME.”

[MUSIC]

AND THEN HE STARTED A CAMPAIGN IN TWITTER, POSTING DIFFERENT PHOTOS WITH CAPTIONS. AND I WANT TO SHOW YOU SOME OF THOSE TWEETS, MARIA.

MARIA: SO THE FIRST TWEET IS 11 DE ENERO, 2019, 11TH OF JANUARY OF 2019.

PENILEY: SO TWO MONTHS AFTER HE WAS MENTIONED AT THE TRIAL.

MARIA: IT’S JUST RECOGNITION FROM THE DEA AND THE UNITED STATES. AND THEN HE HAS LIKE A VERY FUZZY PHOTOGRAPH OF SOME KIND OF OFFICIAL U.S. DEA BADGE.

PENILEY: HERE IS A SECOND TWEET AND IT ALSO INCLUDES A PHOTO OF AN AWARD.

MARIA: IT SAYS “GENARO GARCÍA LUNA. IN RECOGNITION OF YOUR FRIENDSHIP, COLLABORATION AND SUPPORT DURING YOUR TENURE AS THE SECURITY OF PUBLIC SAFETY. DAVID PETRAEUS, DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, APRIL 2012.”

PENILEY: SO ACCORDING TO THE ACCUSATION, HE WAS HELPING EL CHAPO SINCE 2001. SO MORE THAN TEN YEARS AFTER THAT IN 2012, THE CIA GAVE HIM A RECOGNITION FOR HIS SERVICE AND, YOU KNOW, HIS HELP.

[MUSIC] 

PENILEY: SO HE KEEPS TWEETING LIKE THIS FOR MONTHS

MARIA: SO THIS IS APRIL 2019. SO LITERALLY JUST POSTING PHOTOGRAPHS OF HIM NOW WITH HILLARY CLINTON, I.E., I HAVE FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES.

PENILEY: YOU KNOW, I PREPARED THIS FOR YOU BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT HE WAS DOING WHILE THE DEA AND THE MARSHALS AND EVERYONE WAS FINISHING ALL THE DETAILS AND THE GRAND JURY WAS VOTING FOR PREPARING AN INDICTMENT AGAINST HIM. HE WAS TWEETING AND TWEETING PHOTOS WITH HILLARY CLINTON, WITH THE DEA RECOGNITION, AND CIA. YOU KNOW, ALL THESE AWARDS OF, “YOU ARE OUR FRIEND. YOU WERE AMAZING WITH US.”

MARIA: WHAT YOU’RE SAYING, PENILEY IS THIS GUY WAS LIKE, “LA DI DA. I’M GONNA BE OKAY BECAUSE I KNOW ALL THESE PEOPLE AND THEY’RE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ME.” AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, BOOM.

[ARCHIVE]

NEWS ANCHOR: THIS IS GENARO GARCÍA LUNA, AND DURING HIS TIME AS A HIGH PROFILE LEADER, HE’S ACCUSED OF ACCEPTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN BRIBES ALL IN EXCHANGE FOR PROVIDING PROTECTION TO DRUG KINGPIN JOAQUIN “EL CHAPO” GUZMAN AND HIS CARTEL.

MARIA: HE WAS ARRESTED ON DECEMBER 9TH OF 2019, EXACTLY THREE YEARS AGO. NOW, PENILEY, I’M JUST WONDERING, WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THAT DAY? BECAUSE THAT MUST HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY SHOCKING.

PENILEY: YEAH, I WAS IN MEXICO CITY IN A BREAKFAST WITH A SOURCE. AND THIS PERSON HAS BEEN MY SOURCE FOR YEARS. SO HE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT MY STORY WITH GARCÍA LUNA, THAT I HAVE BEEN UNCOVERING HIS BUSINESSES AND EVERYTHING. AND I WENT TO THE RESTROOM.

[MUSIC]

AND, YOU KNOW, MARIA, WHEN ONE PERSON IS HAVING DINNER, BREAKFAST WITH ANOTHER AND ONE PERSON GOES TO THE RESTROOM, THE OTHER PERSON IS JUST CRAWLING THE CELL PHONE AND TRYING TO CATCH UP EVERYTHING. SO WHEN I COME BACK, HE’S LIKE LOOKING AT ME SMILING AND HE SAYS, “GARCÍA LUNA WAS ARRESTED.”

MARIA: OH, MY GOD, I CAN’T… AND YOU’RE JUST LIKE, WAIT, I’M HAVING THIS LITTLE BREAKFAST.

PENILEY: YEAH. IT WAS LIKE, LIKE IN A MOVIE. YOU KNOW, IN THAT MOMENT, I REMEMBERED, LIKE, ALL SUDDEN, LIKE EVERY SOURCE I HAVE BEEN INTERVIEW IN ALL THOSE YEARS, EVERY JOURNALIST THAT HAD TO LEAVE MEXICO, ALL THE DANGERS I PUT MYSELF IN TO UNCOVER THIS STORY. BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, I TOLD MY SOURCE, “OH, I’M SO SORRY. I NEED TO GO.” AND THEN TWO MINUTES AFTER I WAS WORKING ON A STORY FOR NOTICIERO UNIVISIÓN.

[ARCHIVE UNIVISION]

PENILEY: LA SORPRESA EN LA ACUSACIÓN QUE LLEVÓ HOY A GENARO GARCÍA LUNA A UNA CORTE EN TEXAS NO FUE EL ALEGATO QUE RECIBIÓ SOBORNOS.

MARIA: YOU WENT BACK AND YOU FILED.

PENILEY: YEAH.

MARIA: YOU WERE ON THE EVENING NEWS THAT NIGHT, BASICALLY TELLING THE STORY.

PENILEY: YES, AND THAT FOR MY REPORTING, I INTERVIEWED GINGER THOMPSON. SHE’S A JOURNALIST WITH PROPUBLICA. AND ACTUALLY, SHE WAS THE FIRST PERSON THAT BROKE THE NEWS THAT HE WAS ARRESTED. SO WHEN I INTERVIEWED HER, SHE TOLD ME THAT IN THE APARTMENT WHERE GARCÍA LUNA WAS LIVING IN TEXAS AT THE MOMENT OF THE ARREST, THE OFFICERS THAT TOOK HIM FOUND A SMALL ROOM WITH A LOT OF FRAMES AROUND WITH ALL THESE SAME RECOGNITIONS…

MARIA: YOU MEAN AWARDS?

PENILEY: YEAH, AWARDS. AND SOME PICTURES OF HIM WITH AMERICAN DIPLOMATS AND AMERICAN OFFICIALS.

MARIA: SO BASICALLY WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS THAT THE OFFICIALS CATCH HIM, GARCÍA LUNA, IN HIS OWN HOME IN TEXAS. AND WHEN THEY SEARCH THE PLACE, THEY FIND THIS ROOM. AND IT’S A LITTLE BIT CRAZY, RIGHT? IT’S A ROOM WHERE THERE ARE MORE THAN 20 FRAMES OF DIPLOMAS AND AWARDS AND LIKE RECOGNITIONS AND PHOTOGRAPHS WITH SUPER IMPORTANT PEOPLE. AND I GUESS, I DON’T KNOW, IT’S WEIRD. IT’S LIKE HE WOULD JUST SIT IN THE ROOM AND BE LIKE, “DUDE, LET ME LOOK AT ALL OF THE AWARDS AND FAMOUS PEOPLE I KNOW. I GUESS I REALLY AM SOMEBODY.”

PENILEY: YEAH. AND HE WAS SO OBSESSED WITH THESE FRAMES AND DIPLOMAS…

[MUSIC]

…THAT THEN, I REALIZED THAT IN THE PREVIOUS HOUSE THAT HE HAD BEFORE HE MOVED TO TEXAS, HE WAS LIVING IN MIAMI, AND HERE IS A PICTURE OF HIS TV ROOM IN MIAMI WITH THE FRAMES THERE. I WAS ABLE TO TRACE THAT EVERY HOUSE HE WAS MOVING TO, HE WAS CARRYING THE FRAMES ALL OVER THE WAY.

MARIA: WOW, THIS IS JUST LIKE A GUY WHO’S PRETTY INSECURE IS ALL I CAN SAY. AND WE DON’T KNOW. WE’RE, WE’RE ALLEGING. RIGHT. IT APPEARS HE WOULD BE DEEPLY INSECURE.

PENILEY: MAYBE HE WAS INSECURE. OR MAYBE HE NEEDED, REALLY NEEDED TO PROVE THAT HE HAD SOME REALLY IMPORTANT FRIENDS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

[MUSIC END]

PENILEY: AND EVEN TODAY, MARIA, AFTER HIS ARREST AND NOW THAT HE’S AWAITING TRIAL IN THE UNITED STATES, SOME OF THOSE OFFICIALS ARE STILL TALKING POSITIVE TERMS ABOUT HIM. SO TWO YEARS AGO, FOR MY BOOK, I INTERVIEWED MIKE VIGIL. HE WAS THE CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS FOR THE DEA WHEN GARCÍA LUNA WAS HEAD OF THE MEXICAN FBI.

[FADE UNDER]

MIKE: NINGUNA SOSPECHA Y NUNCA COMPROMETIÓ A NINGUNA AGENTE DE LA DEA.

PENILEY: WE INTERVIEWED HIM AGAIN FOR THIS PODCAST. AND WHILE THIS TIME HE TEMPERED HIS OPINION ON GARCÍA LUNA A LITTLE BIT, HE WAS STILL VERY POSITIVE.

MIKE VIGIL: GENARO GARCÍA LUNA WAS WILLING TO DO SO MANY THINGS FOR THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION. I CANNOT SAY THAT I EVER HEARD ANY RUMORS THAT HE WAS CORRUPT OR THAT HE WAS INVOLVED WITH THE SINALOA CARTEL.

MARIA: I MEAN, MY JAW HAS DROPPED. I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND. YOU’RE THE HEAD OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS FOR THE DEA. EVERYTHING ABOUT YOUR POSITION IS THAT YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO BE SUSPICIOUS OF EVERYONE, OF ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE. AND AGAIN, I THINK IT’S BECAUSE OF THAT ATTITUDE THAT WE WANTED TO DO THIS PODCAST.

PENILEY: AND GARCÍA LUNA, HE WAS INDEED THE ARCHITECT OF THE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, MEXICAN WAR ON DRUGS. AND THE WAR ON DRUGS IN MEXICO CAME FROM A MODEL THAT STARTED IN THE U.S. JUST DURING THE NIXON’S PRESIDENCY.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: SO THIS IS IMPORTANT, DEAR LISTENER, BECAUSE IF WE GO BACK TO NIXON, THIS IS WHEN THE WAR ON DRUGS IN THE U.S. IS ACTUALLY DECLARED OFFICIALLY. IT’S AFTER THE COLD WAR AND VIETNAM. YOU KNOW, THE U.S. WAS LOOKING FOR A NEW WAR. THE NIXON ADMINISTRATION WAS REALLY TRASHED AT THAT POINT. SO THEY NEEDED SOMETHING, A LOCAL WAR, AND THEY TURNED A PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEM, RIGHT, INTO A NATIONAL SECURITY PROBLEM. AND IT BECOMES THIS KIND OF WAR TALK. RIGHT. THE WAR ON DRUGS.

PENILEY: EXACTLY. AND AFTER THEY CREATED THIS WAR ON DRUGS HERE IN THE U.S., THEY EXPORTED THAT MODEL INTO COLOMBIA FIRST WITH THE PLAN COLOMBIA, THE COLOMBIAN PLAN, AND THEN TO OTHER LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES. AND THEN FINALLY, THEY EXPORTED THE SAME SYSTEM INTO MEXICO. AND IT BECAME AN INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF COMPANIES AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SELLING THINGS AROUND THIS WAR.

SO IN THE CONTEXT OF THAT SO-CALLED WAR ON DRUGS, THE U.S. HAS SENT TO MEXICO MORE THAN $3 BILLION OF U.S. TAXPAYERS MONEY TO PREVENT THE DRUGS TO COME INTO THE U.S.

MARIA: YOU KNOW, IT IS WILD TO THINK ABOUT THAT HUGE NUMBER. RIGHT. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT BILLIONS AND LIKE MORE THAN THAT, TO THINK THAT DESPITE THE ENORMOUS INVESTMENT OF THE UNITED STATES IN MEXICO’S SO-CALLED WAR ON DRUGS, THAT MORE THAN 900,000 PEOPLE HAVE DIED FROM DRUG OVERDOSES IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE 1999. I MEAN, THAT IS ALSO A HUGE NUMBER. THAT’S ALMOST A MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES AT A TIME WHEN THERE’S SUPPOSEDLY A WAR ON DRUGS TO PROTECT THEM. IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.

PENILEY: AND AT THE SAME TIME, DURING THAT TIME, THE CRIMINAL ORGANIZATIONS BASED IN MEXICO HAS BECOME ONE OF THE LARGEST ORGANIZATIONS WORLDWIDE. THEY SERVE, RIGHT NOW, MARKETS IN THE FIVE CONTINENTS. AND IN MEXICO, MORE THAN 300,000 PEOPLE HAVE DIED SINCE THIS WAR ON DRUGS WAS DECLARED BECAUSE OF THE VIOLENCE.

MARIA: THERE’S SOMETHING VERY FAULTY IN THE WHOLE ISSUE OF DRUG TRAFFICKING AND USING IT AS A WAY TO MAKE MONEY, WHICH IS THAT PEOPLE’S LIVES ARE IN THE BALANCE.

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: I THINK WE CAN SAY THAT THE MEXICAN WAR ON DRUGS HAS BEEN A FAILURE, FROM EVERY EVERY SIDE YOU LOOK AT IT. IN THE U.S., WITH ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED FOR DRUG OVERDOSES, AND IN MEXICO, WITH ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED OR DISAPPEARED IN THE MIDST OF THE VIOLENCE.

AND NOW WE HAVE THIS CASE AGAINST SOMEONE WHO WAS CLOSE U.S. ALLY IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DRUGS, BUT WHO IS NOW ACCUSED OF HELPING TO SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO THE UNITED STATES. AND HE’S NOT JUST ANYBODY. HE’S THE HIGHEST RANKING MEXICAN OFFICIAL EVER TO BE PUT ON TRIAL FOR A CRIME LIKE THIS. BUT AGAIN, THIS IS HAPPENING A DECADE AFTER HE LEFT OFFICE, AFTER THE DEPARTMENT HE WAS LEADING RECEIVED ALL THOSE MILLIONS OF U.S. TAXPAYERS DOLLARS. AFTER HE MOVED TO MIAMI TO LIVE A MILLIONAIRE LIFESTYLE.

SO IN 2020, ROBERTA JACOBSON WAS ASKED ABOUT THIS CASE BY A JOURNALIST FROM PROCESO, A MEXICAN MAGAZINE. AND ROBERTA, FOR THOSE WHO DON’T KNOW, WAS THE DIRECTOR OF THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT’S OFFICE FOR MEXICAN AFFAIRS WHEN GARCÍA LUNA WAS IN POWER, AND LATER SHE WAS THE U.S. AMBASSADOR TO MEXICO. THIS IS WHAT SHE SAID.

ROBERTA JACOBSON: WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT CORRUPTION, INCLUDING ABOUT CORRUPTION BY GARCÍA LUNA, BUT AS I SAID, YOU TAKE STEPS TO TRY AND ENSURE IT DOESN’T AFFECT WHAT YOU’RE DOING. I MEAN OBVIOUSLY GARCÍA LUNA WAS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN DAY TO DAY OPERATIONAL ACTIVITY SO IT WAS PRETTY DISTURBING.

MARIA: I MEAN, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? YOU’RE BATTLING CORRUPTION. YOU’RE TAKING ON THE DRUG WAR. I MEAN, THIS IS REALLY HUGELY PROBLEMATIC. AND BY THE WAY, ROBERTA JACOBSON, DEEPLY RESPECTED IN INTERNATIONAL POLITICS. SO WHEN YOU HEAR WORDS LIKE THIS, WHICH IS LIKE, “WELL, YOU KNOW, WE’RE WORRIED ABOUT CORRUPTION, INCLUDING FROM HIM,” IT’S LIKE, WOW. SO YOU JUST WORRIED ABOUT IT?

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: AND THEN SHE SAYS, “I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, GARCÍA LUNA WAS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONAL ACTIVITIES, SO IT WAS PRETTY DISTURBING.” SO, YOU WERE DISTURBED, WHEN? WHEN YOU COVERED THAT? WHEN YOU WERE WORKING WITH HIM? WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED, OR WHEN?

MARIA: I MEAN, YEAH. LIKE WHEN EXACTLY WERE YOU DISTURBED BY THE ALLEGED CORRUPTION THAT YOU SAW AROUND GARCÍA LUNA? WHEN?

PENILEY: RIGHT, AND WE ACTUALLY TRIED TO TALK TO HER FOR THIS PODCAST, BUT SHE DIDN’T RESPOND TO OUR REQUEST FOR COMMENT.

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: SO IN THIS PODCAST I’M GOING TO SHARE WITH YOU, MARIA, AND WITH OUR LISTENER, EVERYTHING I HAVE FOUND ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA AFTER INVESTIGATING HIM FOR TEN YEARS. SO WHO IS THIS GUY? WHY THE U.S. TRUSTED HIM? HOW COULD HE WORK WITH EL CHAPO’S CARTEL FOR SO LONG, AS HE’S ACCUSED OF DOING RIGHT NOW, AND NOBODY EVER STOPPED HIM?

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE DO THIS, MARIA, BECAUSE HIS DEFENSE IS COUNTING ON NOBODY CARING ABOUT THIS TRIAL. IN APRIL, GARCÍA LUNA’S DEFENSE HERE IN NEW YORK COMPARED HIS UPCOMING TRIAL WITH EL CHAPO’S TRIAL.

THIS IS A DRAMATIC READ OF THE MOTION THEY FILED.

VOICE: THE SCALE OF COVERAGE WILL NOT BE PRESENT AT GENARO GARCÍA LUNA’S TRIAL. HE’S A RETIRED MEXICAN PUBLIC OFFICIAL, VIRTUALLY UNKNOWN IN THE UNITED STATES, OUTSIDE OF THE GROUP OF AMERICAN DIPLOMATS AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS THAT WORKED WITH HIM TO COMBAT THE CARTELS.

PENILEY: THE DEFENSE IS COUNTING ON THAT THE AMERICAN NEWS MEDIA WILL NOT COVER THIS TRIAL AT ALL BECAUSE HE’S JUST A RETIRED MEXICAN GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL AND HE’S “VIRTUALLY UNKNOWN” IN THE UNITED STATES.

MARIA: EXCEPT AFTER WE’RE DONE WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE’RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IN THIS PODCAST. EVERYBODY IS GOING TO KNOW ABOUT WHO GARCÍA LUNA IS BECAUSE, YES, THE UNITED STATES CAN PUT GARCÍA LUNA ON TRIAL, AND YES, WE’RE GOING TO FOLLOW THAT TRIAL CLOSELY.

BUT WITH THIS SERIES, I THINK YOU AND I, PENI, WHAT WE’RE TRYING TO DO IS HOLD BOTH OF OUR COUNTRIES ACCOUNTABLE. RIGHT? WE WANT TO ASK THE QUESTIONS THAT MIGHT NOT BE ASKED IN GARCÍA LUNA’S TRIAL, MIGHT NOT BE ASKED EVEN BY THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA AT ALL, BECAUSE CORRUPTION DOESN’T EXIST JUST IN OTHER COUNTRIES, RIGHT? IT DOESN’T JUST EXIST IN MEXICO.

THE THING IS, FOR ME, THIS STORY IS ABOUT REVEALING THAT CORRUPTION EXISTS RIGHT HERE IN SOMETHING AS DEEP AND AS PROFOUND AND AS EMOTIONAL AND DRAMATIC AND AS EXPENSIVE AS THE WAR ON DRUGS— THAT U.S. TAXPAYERS LIKE ME AND LIKE YOU, DEAR LISTENER, HAVE BEEN FUNDING HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN OTHER COUNTRIES. AND THE UNITED STATES CAN’T SAY THAT IT’S TRYING TO PURGE THE WORLD OF A BAD MEXICAN GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL WITH THIS TRIAL. NO, THE UNITED STATES HAS TO LOOK INWARDS TOO.

GARCÍA LUNA, UNDERSCORE, WAS WORKING WITH U.S. GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. HOW EXACTLY DID HE DO THAT?

PENILEY: AND WE WILL TELL YOU THAT AND SO MUCH MORE. SO…

MARIA: STAY TUNED.

PENILEY: SALUD

MARIA: SALUD

[MUSIC]

VOICE: ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA:

PENILEY: “HE TOLD ME FOR MY BOOK THAT GARCÍA LUNA ALLOWED THE DEA TO GO PRACTICALLY EVERYWHERE THEY WANTED IN MEXICO. BUT THIS IS ILLEGAL.”

MARIA: “DO YOU THINK THAT HE WAS ARRESTED IN RETALIATION FOR THE FACT THAT HE WAS POINTING A FINGER AT GENARO GARCÍA LUNA?”

PENILEY: “WHAT DID THE U.S. EMBASSY DO AFTER, ACCORDING TO HERRERA VALLES, THEY MET? WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE INVESTIGATION INTO GARCÍA LUNA, AND WHY IT DIDN’T RAISE MORE ALARMS?”

CREDITS: USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA IS AN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION BY FUTURO INVESTIGATES, A DIVISION OF FUTURO MEDIA, IN COLLABORATION WITH LATINO USA.

LEMONADA MEDIA IS OUR ADVERTISING AND DISTRIBUTION PARTNER.

OUR HOSTS ARE MARIA HINOJOSA AND PENILEY RAMÍREZ, EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS OF FUTURO UNIDAD HINOJOSA, THE INVESTIGATIONS AND SPECIAL PROJECTS DIVISION OF FUTURO MEDIA.

THIS SERIES IS EDITED BY ANDREA LÓPEZ-CRUZADO. OUR ASSOCIATE PRODUCERS ARE ROXANA AGUIRRE, SOFÍA SANCHEZ AND OSCAR DE LEON. FACT CHECKING BY AMY TARDIF.

NANCY TRUJILLO AND RAUL PEREZ ARE OUR PROJECT MANAGERS.

SPECIAL THANKS TO JULIO RICARDO VARELA, MIKE, SARGENT, NOUR SAUDI, ROXANNE SCOTT AND JUAN DIEGO RAMIREZ FOR THEIR NOTES ON THIS EPISODE.

OUR ENGINEERS ARE STEPHANIE LEBOW, JULIA CARUSO, AND LEAH SHAW DAMERON. ORIGINAL THEME SONG BY JACOB ROSATI.

THIS SERIES WAS MADE POSSIBLE WITH SUPPORT FROM THE W.K. KELLOGG FOUNDATION, CHAN ZUCKERBERG INITIATIVE AND HISPANICS IN PHILANTHROPY.

YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE REST OF “USA VS. GARCÍA LUNA” TODAY, WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS AND ON OUR WEBSITE AT FUTUROINVESTIGATES.ORG — THAT’S FUTURO INVESTIGATES DOT-O-R-G. VISIT OUR SITE TO FIND MORE INFORMATION ON “USA V. GARCÍA LUNA”.

WE CONTACTED OR ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT ALL THE INDIVIDUALS AND ENTITIES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE. SOME COULD NOT BE REACHED OR DECLINED TO COMMENT AND OTHERS DID NOT REPLY TO OUR EMAILS OR PHONE CALLS. THE ANSWERS WE DID RECEIVE ARE INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE.

The work of Futuro Investigates is made possible by the W.K.Kellogg Foundation, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, the Tow Foundation, the Geraldine H. Dodge Foundation, Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden, and Hispanics in Philanthropy.

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