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VOICE: PREVIOUSLY ON “USA V. GARCÍA LUNA”

[CLIPS]

MIKE VIGIL: GENARO GARCÍA LUNA WAS WILLING TO DO SO MANY THINGS FOR THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION.

PENILEY: AND HE’S NOT JUST ANYBODY. HE’S THE HIGHEST RANKING MEXICAN OFFICIAL EVER TO BE PUT ON TRIAL FOR A CRIME LIKE THIS.

MARIA: THE UNITED STATES HAS TO LOOK INWARDS TOO. GARCÍA LUNA WAS WORKING WITH U.S. GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. 

[MUSIC FADE]

MARIA: HELLO, DEAR LISTENER. IT’S MARIA HINOJOSA, AND I’M IN THE STUDIO WITH MY CO-HOST, PENILEY RAMIREZ. 

PENILEY: HELLO FUTURO LISTENER!

MARIA: AND THIS IS EPISODE TWO OF OUR SERIES — USA V. GARCÍA LUNA. 

[THEME MUSIC]

AND IF YOU LISTENED TO EPISODE ONE, WHICH YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD, WELL, DEAR LISTENER, YOU KNOW WHAT COMES FIRST. 

MARÍA: ALL RIGHT, HERE WE GO. THIS ONE’S FOR PENILEY BECAUSE SHE LIKES A FULL ONE. YEA. I GET A FULL ONE TOO. SO, SALUD.

PENILEY: SALUD.

MARIA: AND YOU KNOW WHAT? I WANT TO LAUGH EVEN MORE ON THIS EPISODE THAN I DID IN THE FIRST EPISODE. DO YOU THINK THAT’S POSSIBLE, PENILEY?

PENILEY: YEAH, THAT’S POSSIBLE. BECAUSE TODAY I HAVE A COUPLE OF VIDEOS THAT I WANT TO SHOW YOU.

MARÍA: OKAY, SHOW AND TELL.

PENILEY: AND IT’S GOING TO BE FUN.

MARÍA: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT.

PENILEY: BUT JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME CONTEXT: BACK IN 2009, THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT INAUGURATED THIS BIG POLICE FEDERAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER, AND THEY CREATED AN AD TO PROMOTE THAT CENTER.

MARIA: SO THIS WOULD BE LIKE THE EQUIVALENT OF THE CREATION OF THE CIA OR THE FBI?

PENILEY: IT WAS EQUIVALENT TO THE CREATION OF A BIG CENTER THAT THE DEA HAS IN TEXAS. 

MARIA OH, OKAY. 

PENILEY: AND OF COURSE, IT WAS FOUNDED WITH MONEY FROM…

MARIA: THE UNITED STATES.

PENILEY: FIRST, I WANT YOU TO SEE THE VIDEO AND TELL ME:  WHAT DO YOU SEE?

VOICE: NO SOLO REACCIONAMOS ANTE EL DELITO. HOY, CONSTRUIMOS EL NUEVO MODELO DE POLICÍA. BASADO EN…LOS RESULTADOS DE ESTAS ACCIONES GENERAN INFORMACIÓN SUSTANTIVA EN UNA…  

MARIA: THE EDITING IS SO… 

I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE A PUBLIC RELATIONS VIDEO PROMOTING WHAT THEY CALL “A NEW POLICE MODEL.” AND THEY’RE LIKE SHOWING SHOTS OF COMPUTERS AND EQUIPMENT AND ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, THIS MODERNIZED POLICE FORCE. AND I MEAN, TO ME, IT’S LIKE, WAIT, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY JUST WANT TO LOOK LIKE AMERICAN COPS, AMERICAN POLICE. 

PENILEY: YEAH. THIS IS THE MOMENT WHEN MEXICO WANTED TO PORTRAY ITS POLICE AS, MODERN AND EFFECTIVE AND TO SHOW THAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY FIGHTING THE CRIME. AND LEADING THESE EFFORTS AND ALL THIS PUBLIC RELATIONS CAMPAIGN, WHO YOU THINK IT WAS? 

MARIA: OH, MY GOD, OUR GUY. DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING! GENARO GARCÍA LUNA! DUDE, SERIOUSLY? SO, LIKE, HE WAS LIKE, EL MAESTRO OF, LIKE, LET’S DO THIS WHOLE PR THING. LET’S MAKE THIS WHOLE THING LOOK LIKE COMPUTERIZED. I MEAN, HE, HE WAS SUPER SAVVY AND STRATEGIC.

PENILEY: I MEAN, HE HAD A SPECIFIC IDEA OF WHAT HE WANTED TO DO. FOR EXAMPLE, IN 2011, HIS SECOND TO LAST YEAR AS SECRETARY OF PUBLIC SECURITY,  GARCÍA LUNA USED ABOUT $10 MILLION IN PUBLIC FUNDS TO PRODUCE A TV SERIES. AND SOME OF THOSE FUNDS, MY SOURCES SAY, CAME FROM MONEY THE U.S. HAD SENT TO MEXICO TO FIGHT DRUG TRAFFICKING.AND THE TV SERIES WAS CALLED “EL EQUIPO,” THE TEAM.

MARIA: A TELEVISION SERIES?

PENILEY: YEAH. AND THIS IS THE SECOND VIDEO I WANT TO SHOW YOU TODAY. THIS IS A TRAILER OF THE TEAM. 

MARIA: I’M SO GLAD THAT I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. EVERY TIME WE’RE RECORDING THIS, I’M LIKE, OH, MY GOD.

[MUSIC FROM THE TRAILER OF EL EQUIPO]

MARIA: IT’S LIKE LAW AND ORDER, CSI, FBI, 24.

[TRAILER OF EL EQUIPO]

VOICE 1: EN CAPÍTULOS ANTERIORES

VOICE 2: PILAR ME ABANDONÓ

VOICE 3: A MI ME GUSTARÍA TENER UNA MUJER COMO PILAR

VOICE 4: NUNCA VAS A DEJAR DE SER LO QUE ERES, LA ESPOSA DE UN FEDERAL.

PENILEY: IN THE SERIES, THE FEDERAL POLICE OFFICERS, SO GENARO’S OFFICERS, WERE PRESENTED AS CHARACTERS FROM HOLLYWOOD. 

MARIA: DUDE, THAT WAS VERY TELENOVELA. THERE WAS LIKE SOME VERY BEAUTIFUL WOMEN THERE, LIKE KIND OF LOVE STORY ALMOST.

PENILEY: AND THE TAGLINE OF THE TEAM WAS “ELLOS SABEN QUE EL BIEN VENCE AL MAL.”

MARIA: THEY KNOW THAT GOOD ALWAYS OVERCOMES EVIL. SO IT’S LITERALLY LIKE BLACK AND WHITE. THERE’S GOOD AND THERE’S BAD. BUT YOU CAN’T GET AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT THERE’S LIKE A SERIOUS TELENOVELA UNDERBELLY RIGHT THERE, LIKE “LA HISTORIA DE AMOR!” “WHO’S GOING TO FALL IN LOVE WITH WHO?” THERE’S SOME SEX AND LOVE HAPPENING RIGHT HERE WITH EL EQUIPO, AND WE’RE GOING TO FIND OUT.

PENILEY: BUT, YOU KNOW, MARIA, IT WAS A BIG SCANDAL IN MEXICO BECAUSE THE MEXICAN PRESS THEN DISCOVERED THAT HE WAS USING REAL FEDERAL POLICE OFFICERS AS EXTRAS IN THE SERIES.

MARIA: NO. ARE YOU KIDDING?

PENILEY: I’M NOT KIDDING. 

MARIA: I MEAN, IT’S LIKE YOU CAN’T MAKE THIS STUFF UP.

PENILEY: SO THEY WERE USING REAL POLICE OFFICERS AS EXTRAS. THEY WERE USING REAL EQUIPMENT, REAL BUILDINGS OF THE POLICIA FEDERAL.

MARIA: WHICH IS LIKE REALLY DANGEROUS BECAUSE THEN YOU’RE BASICALLY SHOWING THE INTERIORS OF THE FEDERAL POLICE BUILDING.

PENILEY: AND THAT’S A NATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTION.  SO THIS SERIES WAS A BIG FIASCO. SOME OF MY SOURCES TOLD ME THAT IN PART IT WAS BECAUSE GARCÍA LUNA INSISTED HIMSELF THAT HIS ADVISORS REVIEWED EVERY CHAPTER, EVERY SCRIPT, AND THEY ADDED LINES TO THE SCRIPT. HE WAS ALL INVOLVED IN THE SERIES. HE WAS SO PROUD OF THE SERIES. 

MARIA: SO I’M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. AYÚDAME A ENTENDER AQUÍ UN SEGUNDO. SO THIS GUY IS LIKE MAIN SUPER COP, BUT ON THE SIDE, HE’S HELPING TO CREATE A PRIMETIME TELEVISION SERIES?

PENILEY: YEAH, AND YOU THINK YOU ARE MULTITASKING, MARIA.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: DEAR LISTENER: ON THIS EPISODE, WE’RE GONNA TRY TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHO IS GENARO GARCÍA LUNA. LIKE, HOW DID HE DO THIS? WHERE DOES HE COME FROM? HOW DO YOU RISE UP IN THE MEXICAN POLICE, WHICH IS LIKE MASSIVE AND BECOME SO POWERFUL AND HAVE THIS LIKE CSI MENTALITY? SO, AGAIN, I HAVE ALL THESE QUESTIONS. PENI, YOU DID TOO, AND YOU SPENT TEN YEARS RESEARCHING THIS DUDE. SO. OKAY, WHAT DO WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT GENARO GARCÍA LUNA?

PENILEY: SO, MARIA, GENARO GARCÍA LUNA LED THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SECURITY OF MEXICO FROM 2006 TO 2012. HE WAS IN CHARGE OF DEVELOPING PUBLIC SECURITY POLICIES AND PREVENTING CRIMES. HE WAS ALSO IN CHARGE OF A STREAMLINING POLICE INSTITUTION, AND HE ALSO WAS IN CHARGE OF MANAGING THE FEDERAL PRISON SYSTEM.

MARIA WOW. 

PENILEY THAT MEANS THAT HE WAS REALLY POWERFUL.

MARIA: I MEAN, THAT’S A LOT FOR ONE MAN. THAT’S A LOT. I MEAN, ALL OF THE POLICING AND THE PRISON SYSTEM UNDER ONE PERSON. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

PENILEY: RIGHT,  BUT I THINK HE ALSO ENJOYED IT. FOR GARCÍA LUNA TO BE THIS SUPERCOP WAS VERY, VERY PERSONAL. PEOPLE WHO USED TO WORK WITH HIM TOLD ME THAT HE WAS OBSESSED WITH AMERICAN POLICE TV SHOWS. AND ALSO, HE WAS SO OBSESSED WITH THE CHARACTER OF JAMES BOND, THAT A SOURCE TOLD ME THAT WHEN GARCÍA LUNA TURNED 50 YEARS OLD IN 2018, HE HAD A BIRTHDAY PARTY WITH A JAMES BOND THEME.

MARIA: THE OBSESSION OF CSI AND JAMES BOND. YOU NEVER KNOW WHERE IT CAN LEAD YOU.

PENILEY: ACTUALLY, ANOTHER THING THAT I FOUND IN PUBLIC DOCUMENTS THAT I OBTAINED FOR MY INVESTIGATION IS EARLIER IN HIS CAREER, HE WAS THE DIRECTOR OF THE AFI, WHO WAS THE MEXICAN EQUIVALENT TO THE FBI. AND BACK THEN, WHEN HE WAS IN THAT POSITION, HIS EMAIL ADDRESS WAS “AFI01.” SO HE WAS THE AGENT NUMBER ONE OF THE ORGANIZATION. SO HE WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, PORTRAYING HIMSELF OF THE TIME, LIKE I’M THE AGENT NUMBER ONE. I’M THE HERO OF THIS COUNTRY. 

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: BUT YOU CAN HAVE THAT FANTASIES, YOU KNOW. THAT’S OKAY. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, IF YOU HAVE THOSE FANTASIES WITH U.S. TAXPAYERS’ MONEY AND MEXICAN TAXPAYERS’ MONEY AND PUBLIC FUNDS.

MARIA: OKAY. BUT, PENI, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THE GUY REALLY LOVED TO WATCH CSI? I MEAN, OKAY, IT SEEMS LIKE HE WAS OBSESSED WITH EVERYTHING, LIKE POP CULTURE, POLICE, AMERICAN. BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU WATCH TELEVISION IN THE PRIVACY OF YOUR OWN HOME. SO HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? HOW COULD YOU KNOW THIS?

PENILEY: THE THING IS THAT WHEN YOU WHEN YOU COVER A PERSON FOR SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE CHARACTER — WHAT THINGS HE LIKED, WHAT WAS HIS DREAMS, HIS ROUTINES. SO I INTERVIEWED A LOT OF PEOPLE, SOME OF THEM ON THE RECORD, SOME OF THEM OFF THE RECORD. AND I WAS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND: WHO WAS THIS GUY? 

[COLLAGE]

RODOLFO DE LA GUARDIA: YO RECUERDO UN HOMBRE MUY SERIO, MUY DISCRETO, SE SUBORDINA A SU MANDO Y TIENE ESCOGIDAS RELACIONES DE AMISTAD.

ROBERTO AGUILERA: EL TRATABA SIEMPRE DE PROTAGONIZAR, Y EMPEZÓ A ENGAÑAR. ENGAÑÓ A TODOS PORQUE MONTÓ TODO UN SHOW, UN TEATRO.

JAVIER HERRERA VALLES: SU TALENTO ERA CONVENCER AL PRESIDENTES. PUES AHORA SI ERA  UNA RATA, QUE NOMÁS IBA A APROVECHAR AHORA SÍ EL PUESTO QUE TENÍA. 

MARIA: WOW. SO THE FIRST COMMENT IS LIKE HE WAS PRETTY SERIOUS. BUT THEN PRETTY QUICKLY AFTER THAT, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WAS LIKE, “OH NO, THE GUY WAS LIKE BAD DUDE.”

PENILEY: A RAT.

MARIA: A RAT.

PENILEY: YEAH, I HEARD THAT TYPES OF COMMENTS FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I HAD POLICE OFFICERS TELLING ME THAT GARCÍA LUNA WAS A HERO AND HE WAS SAVING MEXICO AND HE WAS DIGNIFYING THE IMAGE OF THE MEXICAN POLICE. SO THEY REALLY LOOK UP TO HIM.

MARIA: SO, PENILEY, AS YOU’RE KIND OF UNCOVERING THIS, RIGHT, ARE YOU FEELING MORE CONFUSED ABOUT GENARO GARCÍA LUNA? 

PENILEY: I LIKE TO SAY THIS IN SPANISH. HE WAS NOT JUST A MALO DE MALOLANDIA.

MARIA: WAIT, WE HAVE TO TRANSLATE: MALO DE MALOLANDIA. SO HE IS NOT A BAD GUY FROM “BADLANDIA.”

PENILEY: YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT THE SERIOUS ACCUSATIONS AGAINST HIM RIGHT NOW ARE NOT THAT SERIOUS. BUT IT MEANS THAT AS A JOURNALIST, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND ALL THE ANGLES OF THE STORY, NOT JUST, “OH, HE WAS BAD LIKE 24 HOURS A DAY.” 

[MUSIC]

IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE CHARACTER, YOU UNDERSTAND THE REASONS WHY HE DID SOME THINGS.

MARIA: WHICH LEADS BACK TO YOUR ESSENTIAL QUESTION. HOW DOES THIS GUY MAKE IT ALL HAPPEN? SO WHAT IN FACT DID YOU UNCOVER?

PENILEY: WELL, ACTUALLY, I FOUND THAT HIS BACKGROUND IS PRETTY CONVENTIONAL. HE WAS BORN IN A VERY CATHOLIC FAMILY. NOT SURPRISING IN MEXICO. HE GREW UP IN A WORKING CLASS NEIGHBORHOOD IN MEXICO CITY, AND HIS FAMILY HAD A SMALL MOVING BUSINESS. AND HE GREW UP HELPING HIS DAD WITH THAT BUSINESS. 

I DIDN’T FIND ANYTHING REMARKABLE ABOUT HIS CHILDHOOD AT ALL. I JUST FOUND THIS ONE STORY THAT GARCÍA LUNA LIKED TO TELL PEOPLE THAT USED TO WORK WITH HIM. I HAVE HEARD FROM SOURCES THAT HE USED TO SAY THAT WHEN HE WAS A TEENAGER, HE WAS A SPY FOR THE POLICE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

MARIA: ALREADY AS A TEENAGER? HIJOLE

PENILEY: YEAH. SO HE WAS LIKE A…

MARIA: ESPÍA.

PENILEY: SPY KID.

MARIA: HOW DO YOU…. SPY KID. HOW DO YOU CALL THAT IN MEXICO? OREJAS, NO?

PENILEY: EXACTO. 

MARIA: BUT, OREJA, SO EVERYBODY KNOWS, IS YOUR EAR. AND IF YOU’RE AN OREJA, EVERYBODY KNOWS, ESSENTIALLY, TO USE THE STREET TERM, IT’S LIKE YOU’RE A SNITCH.

PENILEY: BUT THE REALITY MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT, MARÍA. SO A COLLEAGUE OF MINE FOUND THAT HE WAS NOT A SPY KID. HE WAS A SUSPECT OF COMMITTING PETTY CRIMES. AND THE POLICE KNEW ABOUT HIM. BUT NOT BECAUSE HE WAS HELPING THEM. IS BECAUSE THEY WERE FOLLOWING HIS ACTIVITIES. AND I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT STORY ABOUT HIM, BECAUSE HE WANTED TO BE SEEN AS SOMEONE THAT WAS ALWAYS DREAMING TO BE A POLICE OFFICER, YOU KNOW, A GOOD COP. BUT ACTUALLY, HE HAD ANOTHER DREAM. I FOUND THAT THE REAL STORY IS THAT WHAT HE WANTED IN LIFE WAS TO BE A SOCCER PLAYER, NOT A POLICE OFFICER.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: A SOCCER PLAYER. NOW, I DON’T KNOW A LOT ABOUT SPORTS. YOU KNOW THIS. THIS IS ONE THING I DON’T KNOW. IT’S PRETTY HARD TO BECOME A PROFESSIONAL SOCCER PLAYER AND MAKE A LIVING. RIGHT? I MEAN, IT’S LIKE A PIPE DREAM ALMOST.

PENILEY: YEAH. BUT AS MANY KIDS IN MEXICO, AND IN A LOT OF PLACES, THEY JUST DREAM TO BECOME THESE GIANT SOCCER STARS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU GREW UP AS HE DID IN A WORKING CLASS FAMILY. YOU HAVE THESE ASPIRATIONS TO MOVE UP. AND TO BECOME A SOCCER PLAYER IS A WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT, TO PULL YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY OUT OF POVERTY. AND IN THE CASE OF GARCÍA LUNA, ONE OF HIS FORMER COLLEAGUES TOLD ME THAT HIS DREAM WAS TO PLAY IN EL AMERICA. DO YOU KNOW THIS CLUB? AMERICA? IT’S…OH, YOU DON’T KNOW. 

MARIA: I MEAN…

PENILEY: THE AMERICA SOCCER CLUB! MARIA, YOU SHOULD KNOW AMERICA SOCCER CLUB. IT’S ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS SOCCER CLUBS.

MARIA: LAS AMERICAS. YES, I KNOW. LAS AMERICAS.

PENILEY: NO, NOT LAS AMERICAS. AMERICA. I DON’T LIKE… I DON’T LIKE THEM. I DON’T LIKE AMERICA. I’M FOR PUMAS. PUMAS FROM THE NATIONAL UNIVERSITY.

MARIA: I’M GETTING SO SCHOOLED ON THIS. I’M SORRY.

PENILEY: DON’T WORRY. BUT IT’S A, IT’S A, IT’S A REALLY IMPORTANT, FAMOUS SOCCER CLUB. AND THAT WAS HIS DREAM. BUT THAT DIDN’T WORK. 

SO THEN HE WENT TO COLLEGE AND HE STUDIED ENGINEERING AND HE GOT INTO THE NEW CISEN, YOU KNOW, THE CENTER FOR INVESTIGATION AND NATIONAL SECURITY, THE EQUIVALENT IN MEXICO TO THE CIA. 

WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS THAT GARCÍA LUNA WAS PART OF A NEW POLICE GENERATION. THE AGENCY THAT GARCÍA LUNA JOINED, THE CISEN, AS WE CALL IT IN SPANISH, WAS THE RESULT OF THE PUSH OF THE U.S. TO PROFESSIONALIZE THE MEXICAN POLICE. BECAUSE, AS YOU KNOW, MARIA, THE MEXICAN POLICE WAS WIDELY REGARDED AS DEEPLY, DEEPLY, DEEPLY CORRUPT.

MARIA: IT WAS PART OF THE STATE APPARATUS FOR SURE.

PENILEY: EXACTLY. SO THERE WAS AN INSTITUTION INSIDE THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT THAT WAS CALLED THE DIRECTORATE OF FEDERAL SECURITY, THE DFS, LA DFS, COMO DECIMOS EN ESPAÑOL. IT WAS A KIND OF A MIX BETWEEN THE CIA AND THE FBI. SO THE DFS WAS LEADING COUNTERTERRORISM EFFORTS AND THEY WERE ALSO INVESTIGATING INSURRECTION ACTIVITIES IN MEXICO. 

THEY WERE SPYING ON UNION LEADERS AND ALSO JOURNALISTS. THE DFS WAS ALSO ACCUSED OF A LOT OF ILLEGAL DETENTIONS, TORTURE, ASSASSINATIONS AND FORCED DISAPPEARANCES.

BUT THEN IN THE LATE 1980S, MEXICO WAS STARTING TO BECOME THE MAIN ROUTE FOR THE DRUG TRAFFICKING TO THE U.S. AND IN 1985, A DEA AGENT WAS KIDNAPPED AND KILLED IN MEXICO BY A DRUG CARTEL.

MARIA: AND EVERYBODY KNOWS HIS NAME, ENRIQUE CAMARENA. 

[ARCHIVE]

NEWS ANCHOR: MOLAND HAS PREVIOUSLY ACCUSED MEXICAN POLICE OF NOT DOING ENOUGH TO FIND THE KIDNAPPERS OF AMERICAN DRUG AGENT ENRIQUE CAMARENA, WHO WAS TAKEN AT GUNPOINT IN GUADALAJARA EARLIER THIS MONTH.  

MARIA: IT WAS THE BIG MOMENT BECAUSE HE WAS A U.S. DEA AGENT KILLED IN MEXICO. 

PENILEY: SO IT WAS A COMPLETE SCANDAL, NOT JUST IN MEXICO, BUT ALSO IN THE U.S. UNTIL TODAY, THE DEA HAS BEEN OBSESSED WITH RAFAEL CARO QUINTERO, THE PERSON THAT THEY THINK IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE KILLING OF ENRIQUE CAMARENA. CARO QUINTERO WAS RECENTLY DETAINED AGAIN AND THE U.S. HAS SEEKED EXTRADITION FOR HIM. 

BACK THEN, ACCORDING TO OFFICIAL ALLEGATIONS, THE DFS WAS WORKING CLOSELY WITH BOTH CRIMINALS AND THE CIA.

MARIA: OKAY. I NEED TO STOP FOR A SECOND BECAUSE YOU SAID THE DFS, WHICH IS THE NATIONAL FEDERAL POLICE HEAVIES, THEY WERE PROTECTING THE DRUG TRAFFICKERS.

PENILEY: YEAH. AND AT THE SAME TIME, THEY WERE CLOSE ALLIES WITH THE CIA IN MEXICO. SO AFTER THE DEA FOUND THAT ONE OF ITS AGENTS WAS KILLED IN MEXICO, IT WAS A COMPLETE MESS. THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT DECIDED TO DISSOLVE THE DFS. THEY SIGNED THE FIRST OF MANY BILATERAL TREATIES WITH THE U.S. AND THEY STARTED COLLABORATING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT MATTERS. 

THEN THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT CREATED A NEW CENTER. THEY SAID THIS NEW CENTER WILL HAVE NEW STANDARDS. SO THEY, FOR EXAMPLE, DID PSYCHOLOGICAL AND POLYGRAPH TESTS. THEY DID BACKGROUND CHECKS ON YOUR FAMILY. AND GENARO GARCÍA LUNA PASSED ALL THE TESTS. THAT’S THE VERY MOMENT WHEN HIS CAREER AS A COP BEGAN.

MARIA: AND SO WHAT YEAR ARE WE NOW? MORE OR LESS.

PENILEY: IN 1989. AND ACTUALLY, I HAVE INTERVIEWED SOME PEOPLE THAT KNEW HIM BACK THEN, AND THEY TOLD ME THAT HE WAS NOT ANY OUTSTANDING OFFICER. HE WAS JUST AN AVERAGE OFFICER. BUT ACTUALLY THERE HE MET ANOTHER PERSON, THAT WAS A TRULY BRILLIANT INTELLIGENCE AGENT. AND THAT PERSON, CRISTINA, BECAME LATER HIS WIFE.

MARIA: AND WE’RE GOING TO COME BACK TO HIS WIFE. BUT FOR NOW, I DON’T KNOW, BECAUSE WHAT YOU’RE TELLING ME IS HE SEEMED PRETTY AVERAGE, RIGHT? YOU’RE SAYING THAT YOU DID YOUR REPORTING EVEN THOUGH HE WAS PASSING ALL OF THESE TESTS, THERE WAS NOTHING ABOUT HIM THAT WAS KIND OF EXTRAORDINARY. HE DIDN’T HAVE THE SOCIAL CAPITAL, NO ES QUE CONOCÍA A ALGUIEN, NO ES QUE ÉL TENÍA ESA CONEXIÓN. SO I’M STILL A LITTLE STUCK WITH, HOW DO YOU DO THAT? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN THESE PLACES, THERE’S A MEXICAN WORD, MUCHA GRILLA. 

CUE THE CRICKETS.

[CRICKETS SFX]

MARIA: OKAY. SO MUCHA GRILLA MEANS THAT THERE’S LIKE A LOT OF MOVEMENT, A LOT OF SOUND, A LOT OF POLITICS. IT MEANS YOU’RE NOT ABLE TO KIND OF MOVE, IN A, LIKE THE FEDERAL POLICE UNLESS YOU KNOW SOMEBODY, UNLESS YOU’RE DOING A LOT OF GRILLA, UNLESS YOU’RE MAKING A LOT OF NOISE. BUT THIS GUY’S MOVING UP EVEN THOUGH HE’S KIND OF A PLAIN GUY. I DON’T UNDERSTAND.

PENILEY:  ACTUALLY, I WAS SURPRISED BY THAT, TOO. BUT THROUGH MY RESEARCH, I STARTED TO REALIZE, MARIA, THAT GARCÍA LUNA IS THIS KIND OF PERSON THAT WILL GO TO GREAT LENGTHS TO ACHIEVE HIS GOALS. AND I WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU A STORY THAT ONE OF MY SOURCES TOLD ME. AND I THINK THIS STORY REALLY ILLUSTRATES THAT. 

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: A FORMER DEA OFFICER BASED IN MEXICO, TOLD ME THAT DURING A HOLIDAY SEASON IN MEXICO, GARCÍA LUNA INVITED THIS GUY TO HIS HOUSE, AND AFTER DINNER, THEY WENT WITH THEIR WIVES TO THE BASEMENT OF THE HOUSE. SO GARCÍA LUNA’S HOUSE. AND IT WAS SORT OF A SECRET PLACE. SO WHEN THIS GUY IS TELLING ME THE STORY, I’M LIKE, OKAY, A BASEMENT, SECRET BASEMENT, SPY, POLICE OFFICER. I’M THINKING ABOUT WEAPONS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT THEN IT IS A ROOM WITH A COUCH AND A LOT OF CASSETTES AND CDS AND DVDS, AND THEY SPEND THE NIGHT THERE, JUST SITTING THERE, NOT TALKING, JUST LISTENING TO THE MUSIC FOR HOURS. AND THEY WERE LISTENING, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, GARCÍA LUNA’S FAVORITE: DONNA SUMMER. 

[MUSIC]

MARIA: OKAY. SO HERE’S THE OTHER THING. I AM OBSESSED WITH DONNA SUMMER. I MEAN, I LOVE HER. I COULD DANCE TO DONNA SUMMER 24/7. BUT THAT’S REALLY WEIRD TO THINK THAT I SHARE THIS WITH GARCÍA LUNA. IT’S SO STRANGE.

PENILEY: YEAH, BUT, YOU KNOW, IN ONE HAND, GARCÍA LUNA IS JUST THIS NORMAL PERSON WHO LOVED DISCO MUSIC. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE’S TRYING TO IMPRESS THIS DEA OFFICER. HE’S TRYING TO SHOW HIM THAT, THEY HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON. HE ALSO LIKED AMERICAN MUSIC. AND, OF COURSE, HE’S TRYING TO GAIN THE TRUST OF THIS IMPORTANT AMERICAN AGENT. 

MARIA: SO GENARO GARCÍA LUNA. DEEPLY FASCINATED BY EVERYTHING U.S.. 

PENILEY: FROM CSI TO DONNA SUMMER.

MARIA: FROM CSI TO DONNA SUMMER. BUT THERE WERE OTHER THINGS THAT HE WAS KIND OF DEEPLY, I DON’T KNOW, I WOULD SAY MAYBE HE WAS … HE WAS A LITTLE TOO OBSESSED ABOUT IT — FITTING IN, PROVING THAT HE WAS SMART ENOUGH, CONVINCING AN AMERICAN DEA AGENT THAT HE WAS COOL BECAUSE HE HAD DONNA SUMMER IN HIS BASEMENT. AND THEN THERE WAS THIS OTHER THING, RIGHT? WHICH IS THAT HE HAD A STUTTER. WHAT DID HE DO AND WHY WAS IT SUCH A BIG DEAL FOR HIM?

PENILEY: I THINK IT’S BECAUSE MEXICO IS A REALLY MALE MACHISTA SOCIETY.

MARIA: PATRIARCHAL.

PENILEY: PATRIARCHAL. SO I THINK IF YOU HAVE A SPEECH PROBLEM AND YOU WANT TO BE THE HEAD OF THE POLICE, PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY MAKE FUN OF YOU. PEOPLE CAN BE REALLY CRUEL. WHAT I LEARNED FROM THAT PART OF HIS LIFE WAS THAT HE WAS REALLY OBSESSED WITH HIS SPEECH PROBLEM, THAT HE SPENT YEARS IN SPEECH THERAPY.

[ARCHIVE]

GARCÍA LUNA: …SECUESTROS A SU CAPETE CON LO, LO, LO, LO…REFERIR. AHI UN POCO….

MARIA: OKAY. NOW, I KNOW THAT WE HEARD A LITTLE BIT OF GARCÍA LUNA’S VOICE IN THE LAST EPISODE, BUT AFTER REALLY GETTING TO KNOW THIS GUY, IT JUST HITS DIFFERENT TO HEAR HIS VOICE AND FRANKLY, THE WAY HE TALKS. 

PENILEY: YES. AND WE ACTUALLY DIDN’T FIND THAT MANY EXAMPLES OF HIS STUTTER BECAUSE MY SOURCES TOLD ME THAT HE FOUND A WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE BY ACTUALLY NOT SPEAKING THAT MUCH AT ALL. NOT IN PUBLIC OR EVEN DURING PRIVATE MEETINGS. SO WHEN HE WAS WITH HIS BOSSES, HE NEVER TALKED BACK AND HE NEVER ARGUED. TIME AND AGAIN, PEOPLE REMEMBER THAT THE PHRASE THAT CHARACTERIZED HIM THE MOST WAS, “YES, SIR. YES, SIR.”

MARIA: AND IN SPANISH, QUÉ? SÍ SEÑOR?

PENILEY: SÍ SEÑOR. SÍ SEÑOR.

[MUSIC] 

PENILEY: AND MY SOURCES TOLD ME THAT GARCÍA LUNA WAS THIS KIND OF PERSON THAT WILL CARRY THE BOSS’ BRIEFCASES OR WILL HOLD THE DOOR OPEN FOR THEM. AND THIS ATTITUDE WAS JUST CONVENIENT TO THE UNITED STATES. FOR EXAMPLE, DURING THE TIME WHEN HE WAS THE SECRETARY OF PUBLIC SECURITY, THERE WAS AN UNPRECEDENTED NUMBER OF DEA AGENTS WORKING IN MEXICO. REMEMBER MIKE VIGIL? THE FORMER CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS OF THE DEA? WE HEAR ABOUT HIM IN EPISODE ONE. HE TOLD ME FOR MY BOOK THAT GARCÍA LUNA ALLOWED THE DEA TO GO PRACTICALLY EVERYWHERE THEY WANTED IN MEXICO.

MIKE VIGIL: “PARA NOSOTROS LAS PUERTAS SIEMPRE ESTABAN TOTALMENTE ABIERTAS.”

PENILEY: BUT THIS IS ILLEGAL. DEA AGENTS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO GO ANYWHERE THEY WANT IN MEXICO BECAUSE THEY NEED PERMISSION FROM THE GOVERNMENT. 

AND THEY EVEN HAD A NICKNAME FOR GARCÍA LUNA. 

MARIA: OH MY GOD. WHAT?

PENILEY: YOU KNOW, THE NICKNAME WAS THE MEXICAN HOOVER.

MARIA: OH, IT’S THE MEXICAN J. EDGAR HOOVER, THE FIRST DIRECTOR OF THE FBI, WHO, AS WE KNOW, WAS VERY COMPLICATED .

PENILEY: YEAH, CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT, MARIA?

MARIA: I MEAN, BECAUSE J. EDGAR HOOVER, HE’S NOT REALLY HELD IN GREAT ESTEEM IN THE UNITED STATES. HE WAS PARANOID. THAT’S BEEN WIDELY DOCUMENTED. WE KNOW THAT HE ILLEGALLY SPIED ON AMERICAN CITIZENS, THAT HE WAS RACIST AND VIOLENTLY AGAINST THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.  

PENILEY: AND GARCÍA LUNA PROBABLY KNEW ALL OF THAT. ONE SOURCE TOLD ME THAT GARCÍA LUNA READ ALL THE BOOKS AND WATCHED ALL THE MOVIES, AND HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT HOOVER. 

MARIA: OKAY, THAT’S JUST WEIRD.  

[MIDROLL]

PENILEY: NOW I WANT TO TELL YOU HOW GARCÍA LUNA GAINED THE TRUST OF FELIPE CALDERON WHEN HE WAS HIS BOSS BECAUSE GARCÍA LUNA WAS THE SECRETARY OF PUBLIC SECURITY AND FELIPE CALDERON WAS THE PRESIDENT. AND THE SHORT ANSWER TO HOW HE DID IT WAS CHISME. HE WAS REALLY GOOD AT GOSSIPING.

MARIA: THIS GUY, THIS POWERFUL DUDE, AND YOU’RE LIKE, LE ENCANTABA EL CHISME. HE LOVED TO GOSSIP. AND I’M LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?’

PENILEY: BUT FOR A POLITICAL REASON. 

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, DURING THE PRESIDENCY OF FELIPE CALDERON, FROM 2006 TO 2012, GARCÍA LUNA HAD A WEEKLY SOCCER DATE WITH HIS OWN SON AND ALSO WITH CALDERON’S SON. AND THIS HAS BEEN WIDELY REPORTED. 

BUT THEN I LEARNED THAT GARCÍA LUNA HAD ANOTHER WEEKLY MEETING WITH CALDERON. OFFICIALLY, IT WAS A BRIEFING ON THE SO-CALLED WAR ON DRUGS. BUT, WHAT MY SOURCES TOLD ME, WAS THAT THESE MEETINGS WERE REALLY FOR GARCÍA LUNA TO UPDATE CALDERON ABOUT THE GOSSIP IN HIS CABINET. LOS CHISMES DEL GABINETE. AFTER THOSE MEETINGS, AND I WAS TOLD THIS BY A FORMER TOP OFFICER, CALDERON WOULD KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM. FOR EXAMPLE, HE WOULD KNOW WHO’S GETTING DIVORCED, WHO WAS DATING WHOM, WHO WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR, EVEN WHO WAS HAVING A SURGERY.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION?

PENILEY: YEAH, WITHIN THE CABINET!

MAYBE IT’S A POWER THING. I DON’T KNOW. MAYBE IF YOU ARE A PRESIDENT OF A COUNTRY, YOU JUST WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING. BECAUSE ACTUALLY, CALDERON WAS NOT THE ONLY PRESIDENT INTERESTED IN GOSSIP. I REMEMBER THAT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, MICHELLE OBAMA SAID SOMETHING SIMILAR ABOUT BARACK OBAMA IN THE LATE NIGHT SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT.  

[ARCHIVE]

MICHELLE OBAMA: IT’S ALL ABOUT THE KIDS. YOU KNOW, HOW ARE YOUR DAYS? WHAT’S GOING ON? WHAT’S THE LATEST GOSSIP? HE’S REALLY INTO GOSSIP SO YOU CAN GET HIM … BECAUSE HE DOESN’T HAVE A LIFE. 

STEPHEN COLBERT: NO, BUT HE’S GOT THE NSA, AND HE CAN FIND OUT WHAT ANY OF US ARE THINKING.”

MARIA: SO GOSSIP AS A POLITICAL TOOL.

PENILEY: YEAH, BUT COLBERT WAS MAKING A JOKE. BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT IN MEXICO, IT WAS REAL. 

MARIA: I JUST NEED TO TAKE A PAUSE THERE, BECAUSE THIS GETS EVEN CRAZIER. SO HE JUST LIKES GOSSIP. OKAY, WE LIKE GOSSIP, BUT IT DOESN’T STOP THERE. HE’S LIKE, “I’M GOING TO SHOW YOU HOW WE DO GOSSIP HERE.”

PENILEY: YEAH. THERE’S AN AUDIO THAT WAS LEAKED IN 2012. THE PERSON IS SPEAKING IN THIS AUDIO IS JOSEPHINA VAZQUEZ MOTA, WHO WAS THEN A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, AND SHE’S TALKING ON THE PHONE WITH ONE OF HER CAMPAIGN COORDINATORS. BUT THIS IS IMPORTANT: SHE WAS FROM THE SAME PARTY OF THE GOVERNMENT THAT GARCÍA LUNA WAS PART OF. AND THIS IS THE AUDIO.

[ARCHIVE]

JOSEFINA: SI PASAN NUESTRA LLAMADA, QUE PASEN NUESTROS SALUDOS – MUCHOS SALUDOS – UN SALUDO CARIÑOSO PARA GENARO GARCÍA LUNA QUE NOS GRABA EN LUGAR DE GRABAR A “EL CHAPO”.

MARIA: THEY’RE ACTUALLY ON THIS LINE AND THEY’RE LIKE, “HEY, GARCÍA LUNA, WE KNOW YOU’RE RECORDING US. HI.”

PENILEY: INSTEAD OF RECORDING EL CHAPO. ACTUALLY, I INTERVIEWED HER AND SHE TOLD ME THAT EVERY PERSON IN THE CABINET WAS ALL THE TIME FEARING TO BE RECORDED BY HIM. AND IN EVERY MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT, THEY WERE EXPECTING THE PRESIDENT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THEM, LIKE FROM PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS. AND GARCÍA LUNA WAS THE PERSON WHO HAD THOSE TOOLS, YOU KNOW, THOSE TOOLS TO RECORD EVERYONE. AND THOSE TOOLS, AGAIN, WERE DONATED BY…

MARIA: THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. OH, MY GOD. THIS IS KIND OF CRAZY.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: SO U.S. MONEY WAS BEING USED TO BUY EQUIPMENT, WHICH WAS THEN BEING USED TO SPY ON POLITICAL OPPONENTS WITHIN MEXICO. I MEAN, REMEMBER IN EPISODE ONE, WE TALKED ABOUT WATERGATE, HOW WATERGATE HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS.  AND IT HAS TO DO WITH THIS KIND OF DEEP CORRUPTION, SPYING, SUPER PARANOID. 

PENILEY: YEAH, MARIA, AND HISTORY IS FULL OF EXAMPLES OF SUPERPOWERS USING THEIR RESOURCES TO SPY ON WHOEVER THEY CONSIDER AN ENEMY OR THEY SIMPLY DON’T LIKE. AND IN THE CASE OF MEXICO, THE MONEY THAT WAS USED FOR SURVEILLANCE KEPT FLOWING FROM THE U.S. THE FORMER HEAD OF INTELLIGENCE OF THE MEXICAN ARMY TOLD ME THAT WHENEVER GARCÍA LUNA WAS MEETING THE U.S. AUTHORITIES, HE WAS ALWAYS ASKING FOR MORE EQUIPMENT, MORE MONEY. BUT I FOUND OUT THAT AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WAS SENDING MONEY AND PARTIALLY SUPPORTING GARCÍA LUNA AND THE, QUOTE UNQUOTE, WAR ON DRUGS, SOME U.S. DIPLOMATS STARTED SUSPECTING GARCÍA LUNA. 

MARIA: SUSPECTING THAT HE LIKED DONNA SUMMER? WHAT WERE THEY SUSPECTING?

PENILEY: NO, SUSPECTING THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY HELPING THE TRAFFICKERS,

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: AND WE KNOW THIS BECAUSE OF WIKILEAKS. LET ME TELL YOU, MARIA, STARTING IN 2010, WIKILEAKS RELEASED THOUSANDS OF DOCUMENTS FROM U.S. EMBASSIES AND CONSULATES AROUND THE WORLD. 

WIKILEAKS GAVE THOUSANDS OF DIPLOMATIC CABLES RELATED TO MEXICO TO THE MEDIA, AND THEY ALSO PUBLISHED HUNDREDS OF OTHER CABLES ONLINE. 

I REVIEWED HUNDREDS OF THOSE DOCUMENTS, AND I FOUND THAT AS FAR AS 2009, THERE WERE SUSPICIONS OF CORRUPTION IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SECURITY, THE ONE THAT GARCÍA LUNA LED.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIRECTLY DENOUNCED THAT CORRUPTION WAS A GUY NAMED JAVIER HERRERA VALLES.

JAVIER HERRERA VALLES: NOS ENTERAMOS DE…DE LAS TRANSAS DE LA POLICÍA JUDICIAL FEDERAL…

PENILEY: HE WAS A HIGH LEVEL OFFICER IN THE FEDERAL POLICE AT THAT TIME, AND I INTERVIEWED HIM FOR MY BOOK BECAUSE I WANTED TO FIND OUT WHY HE WAS SUSPECTING GARCÍA LUNA IN THE FIRST PLACE. 

PENILEY: O SEA, USTED EMPEZÓ A TENER SOSPECHAS DE ÉL CUÁNDO? 

JAVIER HERRERA VALLES: CUANDO ESTUVO ÉL, OSEA  SABÍAMOS…QUE LA AFI ESTABA MUY CONTAMINADA EN ESE TIEMPO. ELLOS ADMINISTRABAN EL SECUESTRO.

MARIA: I GUESS WHAT I’M STUCK WITH IS WHAT IS THE ENDING, RIGHT? BECAUSE WHAT HE’S SAYING IS, KIND OF AT THE HEIGHT OF IT ALL, THIS NATIONAL FEDERAL POLICE DEPARTMENT, HE SAYS, “ADMINISTRABAN LOS SECUESTROS.” THEY WERE MANAGING THE KIDNAPPINGS. I’M LIKE, “WHAT?”

PENILEY: YEAH. SO JAVIER HERRERA [A HIGH LEVEL OFFICER IN THE FEDERAL POLICE] FINDS THAT GARCÍA LUNA’S CLOSE ALLIES WERE INDEED WORKING WITH THE DRUG TRAFFICKERS, AND EVEN WORSE, THEY WERE KIDNAPPING PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY RICH PEOPLE, AND THEY WERE ASKING FOR RANSOMS.

BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER AT THIS POINT, MARIA, THAT GARCÍA LUNA IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE IN MEXICO, JUST SECOND TO THE PRESIDENT. YOU COULDN’T JUST ACCUSE HIM OF SOMETHING AS SERIOUS AS THAT. 

AND I ALSO FOUND THAT THE CHECKS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE IN PLACE TO PREVENT CORRUPTION WEREN’T REALLY THERE. REMEMBER THAT I SAID THAT BACK IN 1989, GARCÍA LUNA PASSED ALL THOSE EXAMS THAT ALLOWED HIM TO BECOME AN INTELLIGENCE AGENT—UN ESPIA. 

WELL, THEN I FOUND OUT THAT AFTER A FEW YEARS, HE NEVER HAD TO UNDERGO ANOTHER OF THOSE TRUST EXAMS AGAIN. AND I DISCOVERED THAT THE PERSONAL FINANCIAL REPORTS HE WAS FILING IN MEXICO DIDN’T INCLUDE ALL THE PROPERTIES HE WAS BUYING.

MARIA: SO NO ONE WAS CHECKING THAT THE FINANCIAL REPORTS WERE TRUTHFUL. I MEAN, HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? 

PENILEY: YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE START ASKING QUESTIONS AND ONE OF THEM WAS JAVIER HERRERA VALLES. JAVIER TOLD ME THAT IN 2008, HE MET WITH SOME PEOPLE FROM THE U.S. EMBASSY IN A SECRET LOCATION IN A CITY CLOSE TO MEXICO’S CAPITAL TO DISCUSS HIS CONCERNS ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA. HE GAVE ME AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW IN 2020, AND HE SAID THAT THE U.S. OFFICIALS TOLD HIM THAT THEY WERE ALREADY INVESTIGATING GARCÍA LUNA. 

JAVIER HERRERA VALLES: YA LO ESTABAN INVESTIGANDO. ME VISITARON AFUERA DE…

PENILEY: HE ALSO TOLD ME THAT THEY OFFERED TO GET HIM OUT OF THE COUNTRY IN CASE THAT HE WAS IN ANY DANGER.  

JAVIER HERRERA VALLES: …PAÍS EN CASO DE QUE HUBIERA, HUBIERA ALGUNA SITUACIÓN DE PELIGRO.

PENILEY: THIS WAS 2008. SO A WEEK AFTER HERRERA VALLES SAYS HE MET WITH A U.S. DIPLOMATS IN A SECRET LOCATION IN MEXICO… 

MARIA: …TO BASICALLY SAY, I THINK GARCÍA LUNA MIGHT BE DIRTY…

PENILEY: HE WAS ARRESTED. JAVIER WAS ACCUSED OF DRUG TRAFFICKING, AND HE SPENT FOUR YEARS IN PRISON, AND IN 2012, HE WAS DECLARED INNOCENT AND HE WAS RELEASED. HE WAS TOLD LIKE, “OH, WE MADE A MISTAKE. SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE. YOU CAN GO HOME NOW.”

MARIA: OH, MY GOD. SO, DO YOU THINK THAT HE WAS, THAT HE WAS ARRESTED IN RETALIATION FOR THE FACT THAT HE WAS POINTING A FINGER AT GENARO GARCÍA LUNA?

PENILEY: THAT’S WHAT HE THINKS.

JAVIER HERRERA: CUANDO ME DETUVIERON, LOS POLICÍAS QUE ME FRACTURARON UNA COSTILLA, ME SUBIERON A LA PATRULLA Y EN EL TRAYECTO ME ESTUVIERON GOLPEANDO, ME DIJERON POR NO CALLARME EL HOCICO Y HABERTE METIDO CON EL INGENIERO GARCÍA.

MARIA: SO, LIKE, THE POLICE OFFICERS ARE BEATING HIM, TORTURING HIM, AND THEY’RE LIKE, “HEY, WHAT WERE YOU DOING MESSING AROUND WITH GENARO GARCÍA LUNA?”

PENILEY: SO MY QUESTION IS, WHAT DID THE U.S. EMBASSY DO AFTER THAT? AFTER AGAIN, ACCORDING TO HERRERA VALLES, THEY MET. WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE INVESTIGATION INTO GARCÍA LUNA AND WHY IT DIDN’T RAISE MORE ALARMS? BECAUSE FOUR YEARS AFTER THAT, IN 2012, THE CIA GAVE GARCÍA LUNA AN AWARD. THIS IS ONE OF THE AWARDS THAT WE MENTIONED IN THE LAST EPISODE. AND IN THIS AWARD THEY CALL HIM A FRIEND OF THE UNITED STATES. 

MARIA: DEAR LISTENER, IF YOU’RE GETTING A LITTLE CONFUSED, IT’S BECAUSE IT IS CONFUSING. SO ON THE ONE HAND, THE U.S. IN 2008 IS SAYING, WE’RE WATCHING HIM. BUT IN 2012, THEY’RE GIVING HIM AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS IN THE CIA AND THEY’RE SAYING HE’S THE GOOD COP AND THE GUY WHO’S TRANSFORMING MEXICAN POLICE.

PENILEY: AND PEOPLE BOUGHT IT, INCLUDING U.S. MEDIA. THE NEW YORK TIMES WROTE A SUPER LONG PROFILE ON GARCÍA LUNA IN 2008, THE SAME YEAR JAVIER VALLES WENT TO PRISON. 

MARIA: I MEAN, JUST THE CONTRAST OF THAT, I MEAN, IT’S JUST REALLY SOMETHING. 

PENILEY: AND IT’S A VERY POSITIVE PROFILE. SO THE NEW YORK TIMES CALLS GARCÍA LUNA, “THE FIXER, A CENTRAL PLAYER IN THE EFFORTS TO REFORM MEXICO’S POLICE.”  

MARIA: AND YOU KNOW WHAT? THE ARTICLE DOESN’T REALLY PUSH BACK ON THAT NARRATIVE OF GARCÍA LUNA. I MEAN, THEY BASICALLY LET HIM TALK ABOUT HOW HE’S CLEANING UP THE MEXICAN POLICE FORCE AND CHANGING POLICING FOREVER IN MEXICO. AND AGAIN, DEAR LISTENER, THIS IS A PERSON WHO IS NOW INDICTED IN THE UNITED STATES, IN FEDERAL COURT. 

PENILEY: ON SERIOUS ACCUSATIONS OF DRUG SMUGGLING AND, YOU KNOW, LYING TO THE U.S. AUTHORITIES AND HELPING FOR YEARS DRUG ORGANIZATIONS IN MEXICO TO SMUGGLE TONS OF COCAINE TO THE UNITED STATES. 

[MUSIC]

MARIA: SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS HAPPENING WITH GENARO GARCÍA LUNA WAS THAT HE WAS KIND OF BELIEVING HIS STUFF. SE LO EMPEZÓ A CREER. AM I RIGHT?

PENILEY: YEAH. I THINK THAT’S A PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE IF YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE TELLING YOU THAT, YOU ARE A HERO, YOU ARE SAFE IN MEXICO AND YOU HAVE ALL THE PEOPLE, LIKE JOURNALISTS, TELLING YOU THAT YOUR POLICE INSTITUTION IS NOT THAT CLEAN. IT’S EASY TO JUST TELL THEM, “OH, YOU ARE CRAZY.”

MARIA: RIGHT. BECAUSE GARCÍA LUNA HAD ALL OF THESE AWARDS AND THE RECOGNITIONS FROM THE U.S. AGENCIES. HE HAS THIS GLOWING PROFILE IN THE NEW YORK TIMES. BUT IN MEXICO, THE PRESS WAS REPORTING ABOUT THE CRIMES OF THE POLICE FORCE THAT HE HAD BEEN LEADING, RIGHT, THEY WERE SAYING THIS GUY’S GOT SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS WITH THE POLICE FORCE. 

PENILEY: YEAH, AND FOR YEARS, HIS OFFICERS WERE ACCUSED OF VIOLATING HUMAN RIGHTS, OF DISAPPEARING AND MURDERING PEOPLE, CONDUCTING ILLEGAL DETENTIONS AND EVEN TORTURING DETAINEES.

AND ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION, GARCÍA LUNA WAS CALLED TO CONGRESS TO RESPOND TO THOSE ACCUSATIONS. BUT AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, HE JUST DENIED EVERYTHING. THIS IS HIM BEFORE THE MEXICAN CONGRESS IN 2011:

GENARO GARCÍA LUNA: HOY LA POLICÍA FEDERAL TIENE EN GRAN MEDIDA LA VANGUARDIA EN COMBATE AL DELITO DE SECUESTRO. ESTÁ LA CIFRA AHÍ EN LA CARPETA. Y HAY UN ESFUERZO MUY IMPORTANTE. ES MÁS TENGO QUE DECIRLE QUE QUIEN DETIENE HOY MÁS SECUESTRADORES ES LA POLICÍA FEDERAL.

MARIA: SO THIS IS WHERE IT GETS CONFUSING, RIGHT? I MEAN, GENARO GARCÍA LUNA IS IN FRONT OF CONGRESS. HE’S TESTIFYING. THE MEDIA IN MEXICO IS REPORTING ABOUT POLICE OFFICERS UNDER GARCÍA LUNA’S CHARGE ARE VIOLATING HUMAN RIGHTS. AND ALL OF THIS IS PUBLIC. SO YOU’VE GOT ALL OF THIS WRITING ON THE WALL, RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA. BUT WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WAS LIKE: “OH, DON’T WORRY, IT’S OKAY. WE LIKE THIS GARCÍA LUNA GUY. WE THINK HE’S OKAY.” I MEAN, IS THAT WHAT YOU’RE SAYING? 

PENILEY: YEAH, THAT’S WHAT I’M SAYING. AND WHY DID THE U.S. DO THAT? I DON’T KNOW FOR SURE, MARIA. THAT’S ACTUALLY A QUESTION I HAVE AND I’M SURE MANY PEOPLE HAVE. AND I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER. BUT WHAT I DID FIND OUT WAS THAT THE SUSPICIONS ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA WORKING WITH THE CARTELS GO EVEN FURTHER BACK. IN 2020, I RECORDED AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH GENERAL ROBERTO AGUILERA. HE WAS A HEAD OF INTELLIGENCE IN THE MEXICAN ARMY FROM 2000 TO 2006. AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE OPENED AN INVESTIGATION INTO GARCÍA LUNA’S POLICE OFFICERS BACK IN 2001.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: DUDE, SO ALMOST 20 YEARS BEFORE GARCÍA LUNA WAS FINALLY ARRESTED IN TEXAS, 20 YEARS BEFORE THAT, THERE WERE SUSPICIONS. 

PENILEY: AND MARIA, DO YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE HAPPENED IN 2001? IT WAS A YEAR WHEN EL CHAPO GUZMAN ESCAPED FROM PRISON FOR THE FIRST TIME. AND I WILL TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THAT…

MARIA: BUT YOU KNOW WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN? IT’S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT EPISODE. SO BE SURE TO LISTEN. 

PENILEY: STAY TUNED. SALUD

MARIA: SALUD.

VOICE: ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA:

[CLIPS]

MARIA: I DON’T KNOW WHY WE’RE GOING INTO QUEENS. I JUST KNOW THAT WE’RE ON OUR WAY TO QUEENS

MARIA: WHAT DO YOU SEE?

PENILEY: IT’S A BIG INSTALLATION THEY HAVE, LIKE, DIFFERENT WAREHOUSES

MARIA: ALL RIGHT. LET’S GET OUT.

PENILEY: OKAY, LET’S GET OUT.

MARIA: WHAT EXACTLY IS THE CONNECTION OF GARCÍA LUNA TO THIS PLACE?

CREDITS: USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA IS AN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION BY FUTURO INVESTIGATES, A DIVISION OF FUTURO MEDIA, IN COLLABORATION WITH LATINO USA. 

LEMONADA MEDIA IS OUR ADVERTISING AND DISTRIBUTION PARTNER.

OUR HOSTS ARE MARIA HINOJOSA AND PENILEY RAMÍREZ, EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS OF FUTURO UNIDAD HINOJOSA, THE INVESTIGATIONS AND SPECIAL PROJECTS DIVISION OF FUTURO MEDIA. 

THIS SERIES IS EDITED BY ANDREA LÓPEZ-CRUZADO. OUR ASSOCIATE PRODUCERS ARE ROXANA AGUIRRE, SOFÍA SÁNCHEZ AND OSCAR DE LEON. FACT CHECKING BY AMY TARDIF. 

NANCY TRUJILLO AND RAUL PEREZ ARE OUR PROJECT MANAGERS. 

OUR ENGINEERS ARE STEPHANIE LEBOW, JULIA CARUSO, AND LEAH SHAW DAMERON. ORIGINAL THEME SONG BY JACOB ROSATI. 

THIS SERIES WAS MADE POSSIBLE WITH SUPPORT FROM THE W.K. KELLOGG FOUNDATION, CHAN ZUCKERBERG INITIATIVE AND HISPANICS IN PHILANTHROPY. 

YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE REST OF “USA V. GARCÍA LUNA” WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS AND ON OUR WEBSITE AT FUTUROINVESTIGATES.ORG — THAT’S FUTURO INVESTIGATES DOT-O-R-G. VISIT OUR SITE TO FIND MORE INFORMATION ON “USA VS. GARCÍA LUNA.” 

WE CONTACTED OR ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT ALL THE INDIVIDUALS AND ENTITIES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE. SOME COULD NOT BE REACHED OR DECLINED TO COMMENT AND OTHERS DID NOT REPLY TO OUR EMAILS OR PHONE CALLS. THE ANSWERS WE DID RECEIVE ARE INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE.

The work of Futuro Investigates is made possible by the W.K.Kellogg Foundation, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, the Tow Foundation, the Geraldine H. Dodge Foundation, Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden, and Hispanics in Philanthropy.

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