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RELEASED TO DIE EPISODE 2

MARIA: A FEW MONTHS AFTER FRANK ROSS IS RELEASED FROM PRISON ON COMPASSIONATE RELEASE, WE MEET A WOMAN NAMED MARIE SCOTT. BUT… SHE DOESN’T USE THAT NAME VERY OFTEN.

MARIE SCOTT “MECHIE”: I’M SO USED TO THE POLICE CALLING ME MARIE SCOTT I DON’T EVEN USE THAT UNLESS I HAVE TO BE TALKING TO A COP.

MARIA: FOR DECADES NOW, SHE’S GONE BY MECHIE. MECHIE IS 72 YEARS OLD. SHE WAS SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON AT JUST 19 YEARS OLD AND SPENT MORE THAN HALF A CENTURY AT A WOMEN’S PRISON IN PENNSYLVANIA.  IN JANUARY 2026 SHE WAS GIVEN A SECOND CHANCE –

MECHIE: SO  I’M FREE,, AFTER DOING 53 YEARS IN PRISON. AND RIGHT NOW, IT DOESN’T EVEN FEEL LIKE I HAVE FEET, BECAUSE EVERYTHING I DO IS FLOAT.

MARIA: SHE’S NOW GETTING ADJUSTED TO HER NEW LIFE. BUT BEFORE SHE WAS RELEASED – MECHIE SAYS SHE SPENT YEARS DEALING WITH HEALTH ISSUES IN PRISON. IT STARTED WITH PAINFUL SCIATICA THAT MADE IT HARD TO WALK – SHE THINKS THIS WAS FROM DECADES OF SLEEPING ON A HARD PRISON MATTRESS.

MECHIE: SCIATICA HIT MY RIGHT LEG, AND I DRAGGED IT UNTIL FOREVER, AND THAT KIND OF PAIN, WHEN YOU HAVE A SCIATIC ATTACK, PEOPLE DON’T UNDERSTAND. THAT’S THE KIND OF PAIN THAT MAKES YOU HOLLER

MARIA: COUPLED WITH DECADES OF PRISON MEALS LACKING IN NUTRITION, LIMITED ACCESS TO THE OUTDOORS, AND LITTLE ACCESS TO DOCTORS – MECHIE’S HEALTH ISSUES GREW. SHE ALSO WORRIED ABOUT CANCER – SHE SAYS SHE SAW MANY WOMEN GET DIAGNOSED WHEN IT WAS ALREADY TOO LATE –

MECHIE:  PLENTY OF WOMEN DIED OF CANCER IN THERE. AND DIED SHORTLY THEREAFTER.

MARIA: AND THERE IS SOMETHING TO HER OBSERVATION. A RECENT STUDY FROM THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH FOUND THAT WOMEN IN PRISON ARE MORE LIKELY TO DEVELOP SOME KINDS OF CANCER – AND ARE ALSO MORE LIKELY TO DIE BECAUSE OF IT. MECHIE DIDN’T HAVE THIS INFORMATION THEN, BUT SHE SAYS THE WOMEN AT MUNCY DIDN’T TRUST THE PRISON TO TAKE THEIR HEALTH CONCERNS SERIOUSLY. SO, THEY KEPT TABS ON THEIR OWN BODIES, THEIR OWN HEALTH.

ONE DAY, MECHIE FOUND A LUMP IN HER BREAST AND PUSHED TO SEE A DOCTOR –

MECHIE: AND  HE SAID, “MS. SCOTT?” I SAID, “YEAH.” HE SAID, “I’M SORRY TO TELL YOU, YOU HAVE BREAST CANCER.”

MARIA: MECHIE SAYS SHE FOUGHT CANCER BEHIND BARS AT THE SAME TIME  SHE APPLIED FOR COMMUTATION – THATS A PROCESS THAT REQUIRES GOVERNOR APPROVAL AND THAT BASICALLY SUSPENDS THE REST OF A PERSON’S SENTENCE.

EVENTUALLY, MECHIE WAS GRANTED HER FREEDOM. SHE WAS RELEASED JUST TWO DAYS BEFORE FRANK ROSS IN JANUARY OF 2026.

MECHIE: I’M, I’M JUST SO GLAD THAT I’M STILL ALIVE WHILE I’M OUT HERE. I GOT FREE. BEING FREE IS ONE THING, BUT STAYING ALIVE IS ANOTHER, AND THAT’S WHAT I’M TRYING TO DO, STAY ALIVE.

MARIA: MECHIE’S STORY WOULD SOON PAINT A VIVID PICTURE OF WHAT GROWING OLD, AND GETTING SICK, IN PRISON FEELS LIKE. HOW SIMILAR HER EXPERIENCE WAS TO FRANK’S – AND HOW BEING A WOMAN CAN MAKE THOSE HEALTH CHALLENGES SOMEHOW EVEN TOUGHER TO NAVIGATE IN PRISON.

[THEME MUSIC]

MARIA: FROM FUTURO MEDIA, IT’S LATINO USA. I’M MARIA HINOJOSA. TODAY…RELEASED TO DIE, PART 2. IT’S A THREE EPISODE MINI SERIES ABOUT INCARCERATED ELDERS, AND THE GRAYING OF AMERICAN PRISONS.

MARIA: FOR THIS EPISODE, WE’RE GOING TO STEP AWAY TEMPORARILY FROM FRANK’S STORY TO HEAR ABOUT MECHIE’S EXPERIENCE. AND THE PARTICULAR CHALLENGES THAT FACE WOMEN GETTING OLDER, AND GETTING SICK, IN PRISON.

NOW IT’S UNDENIABLE THAT WE KNOW LESS ABOUT THE EXPERIENCES OF WOMEN BEHIND BARS. PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE WOMEN MAKE UP A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF THE INCARCERATED POPULATION ACROSS THE BOARD – IN BOTH FEDERAL AND STATE PRISONS. THE PRISON POLICY INITIATIVE SAYS JUST ABOUT 10% OF PEOPLE IN PRISON ARE WOMEN.

BUT, JUST AS THE NUMBER OF AGING PEOPLE BEHIND BARS IS GROWING RAPIDLY, SO IS THE NUMBER OF WOMEN. ACCORDING TO A STUDY BY THE PENNSYLVANIA REENTRY COALITION, THE RATE OF INCARCERATION FOR WOMEN ROSE MORE THAN 50% FASTER THAN THAT OF MEN BETWEEN 1980 AND 2014. THAT’S WHY EXPERTS SAY IT’S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW BOTH GENDER AND AGE PLAY A PART IN HEALTHCARE NEEDS AND WHY REFORM AIMED AT REDUCING THE NUMBER OF ELDERLY INCARCERATED PEOPLE IS ACTUALLY REALLY IMPORTANT.

A WARNING — THIS STORY CONTAINS SOME MENTIONS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, TAKE CARE WHILE LISTENING.

SENIOR PRODUCER JULIETA MARTINELLI PICKS UP THE STORY FROM HERE.

JULIETA: A FEW WEEKS AFTER HER RELEASE…ON A DARK, RAINY MORNING IN APRIL, SUAVE, MECHIE AND I MEET AT COMMUNITY COLLEGE OF PHILADELPHIA, WHERE SUAVE WORKS. WE SIT DOWN IN A CLASSROOM.

MECHIE IS SHORT – OR MAYBE SHE LOOKS SHORTER THAN SHE ACTUALLY IS, CROUCHED OVER THE WALKER SHE NOW NEEDS TO BE MOBILE. SHE IS A BLACK WOMAN, WITH LIGHT SKIN AND A BALD HEAD. SHE HAS THIS GREAT, BIG FRIENDLY SMILE – WITH A GAP BETWEEN HER FRONT TEETH. ON THIS DAY SHE’S WEARING A MATCHING SWEATSUIT, SNEAKERS AND A SILVER CHAIN – SHE’S GOT STYLE.

[MUSIC]

JULIETA: BEFORE WE GET INTO HER CANCER DIAGNOSIS IN PRISON, MECHIE ASKS IF WE CAN TAKE A DETOUR – TO TALK ABOUT HER PAST.

MECHIE: I WAS RAISED IN TEANECK, NEW JERSEY. THREE BLOCKS FROM THE ISLEY BROTHERS. WE ALL GREW UP TOGETHER. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? GOING BETWEEN TEANECK, NEW JERSEY, TOPEKA, KANSAS, AND ORLANDO, FLORIDA, THOSE ARE THE PLACES THAT I GREW UP.

JULIETA: MECHIE LIVED WITH HER DAD. HER MOM PASSED AWAY WHEN SHE WAS YOUNG. MECHIE SAYS HER FATHER’S GIRLFRIEND DIDN’T LIKE HAVING HER AROUND SO SHE WAS SHUFFLED AROUND THE FAMILY.

AT SOME POINT MECHIE SAYS THAT SHE AND HER SISTER ENDED UP LIVING WITH AN AUNT. MECHIE SAYS HER SISTER WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED BY THEIR UNCLE, AND LATER, SO WAS SHE.

MECHIE:  I LEARNED HOW TO JUMP OUT OF SECOND-FLOOR WINDOWS BECAUSE HE WOULD PICK MY LOCK AND I COULDN’T KEEP HIM OUT OF MY ROOM.

JULIETA: WHEN SHE GOT OLDER, MECHIE SAYS SHE GATHERED THE COURAGE TO TELL HER AUNT.

MECHIE: I WASN’T LIKE, “LET THIS MOTHERFUCKER COME IN HERE AGAIN AND I’LL KILL HIM,”. I DIDN’T HAVE THE KILLER EFFECT. I WAS ONLY FIVE, SIX, SEVEN. YOU KNOW, IT WENT ON TILL I WAS 15 YEARS OLD,

JULIETA: SHE SAYS NOTHING REALLY CAME OF IT… MECHIE FELT ASHAMED. LATER, WHEN STAYING WITH HER GRANDFATHER, SHE SAYS SHE WAS MOLESTED BY A NEIGHBOR.

MECHIE: HE SAID, “IF YOU SCREAM, I’LL KILL YOU.”. AND I DIDN’T SCREAM.

JULIETA: BY 16, MECHIE HAD A BABY. BY 17, SHE HAD RUN AWAY. IN THE STREETS, SHE SAYS SHE WAS INTRODUCED TO ALL KINDS OF THINGS. BUT THE WORST –

MECHIE: DON’T NOBODY TELL YOU, “HEY, THIS IS HEROIN. YOU TAKE THIS, YOU’RE GONNA THROW UP AND NOT LIKE IT AT FIRST, BUT AFTER THAT, YOU’RE GONNA NEED IT AFTER THREE DAYS, AND THEN YOU’RE GONNA START FEELING SICK, DOPE SICK,

JULIETA: THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

MECHIE: I GOT SHOT, I GOT STABBED, I GOT SODOMIZED. I GOT EVERYTHING THAT COULD HAPPEN TO SOMEBODY THAT YOUNG. IF YOU’RE HOMELESS IN NEW YORK, YOU’RE GONNA GET RAPED THAT’S PAR FOR THE COURSE.

JULIETA: WITHOUT SUPPORT, AND NOW FIGHTING ADDICTION, MECHIE SAYS THAT SHE DECIDED TO GIVE UP CUSTODY OF HER SON.

MECHIE: AND I COULD NOT FIGURE OUT HOW I WAS GONNA TAKE CARE OF MY SON THE RIGHT WAY I HAD TO GIVE HIM UP BECAUSE MY DESIRE TO GET THAT SICKNESS OFF OF ME WAS GREATER THAN THE NEED THAT I NEEDED TO TAKE CARE OF MY SON. I COULDN’T THINK LOGICALLY.

JULIETA: EVENTUALLY, SHE SAYS SHE WAS ABLE TO GET CLEAN. HER FATHER TOLD HER TO RETURN TO PHILADELPHIA.

MECHIE: AND THAT WAS THE WORST THING THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO ME

JULIETA: MOVING BACK TO PHILADELPHIA WOULD CHANGE HER LIFE FOREVER. NOT LONG AFTER SHE MOVED BACK HOME,  MECHIE SAYS THAT HER FATHER’S GIRLFRIEND ONCE AGAIN KICKED HER OUT. SHE TOOK THE FIRST JOB SHE FOUND AT A RESTAURANT.

ONE NIGHT, WHILE WORKING THE CASH REGISTER AT THE FRONT, MICHI SAYS THAT HER SISTER RAN IN. SHE TOLD HER THAT SHE HEARD THE MEN ABOUT TO COME IN WERE PLOTTING TO ROB HER. WHEN THE MEN WALKED IN TO THE RESTAURANT, MECHIE SAYS SHE TOLD THEM SHE HAD A GUN UNDER HER REGISTER – A LIE – AND THEN —

MECHIE: ALL OF A SUDDEN, THIS GUY COMES FROM THE END PART OF THE RESTAURANT AND HAS A SILVER GUN UP IN HIS HAND, AND HE’S TELLING THEM TO GET THE HELL OUT, CUSSING AT THE GUYS.

JULIETA: AFTER A LIFE OF ABUSE, MECHIE SAYS SHE FELT CARED FOR –

MECHIE: I FELT LIKE IF A GUY TOOK ME TO THE MOVIES, HE WAS IN LOVE WITH ME. IF HE WANTED TO TAKE ME TO DINNER, HE’S GETTING READY TO PULL OUT A RING AND ASK ME TO MARRY HIM. SO IF HE SAVES MY LIFE, HOW YOU THINK I FEEL? HE’S A HERO. MM-HMM. I OWE MY LIFE FOR HIM. THERE’S NOTHING THAT THIS GUY COULD ASK ME THAT I WOULD SAY NO TO. SO 10 DAYS LATER, WHEN HE ASKED ME TO GO ON A ROBBERY WITH HIM- … I SAID, “WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?” HE SAID, “JUST BE A LOOKOUT.” I SAID, “A LOOKOUT FOR WHAT?” AND HE SAID, “FOR ANY MAN THAT COMES OR COPS THAT COME.” … BUT IT DIDN’T END UP HAPPENING LIKE THAT.

JULIETA: MECHIE SAYS SHE’D NEVER DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT SHE FIGURED ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS STAND OUTSIDE A GAS STATION. THE MAN – NAMED LEROY – WOULD GO INSIDE AND TAKE THE MONEY FROM A SAFE. IN HER HEAD, AT 19-YEARS-OLD,  MECHIE SAYS SHE JUST SAW AN OPPORTUNITY TO HELP THIS MAN – THIS HERO WHO HAD HELPED HER. SHE DIDN’T THINK TOO MUCH ABOUT IT. SHE FIGURED IT WOULD ALL BE DONE IN A MATTER OF MINUTES. INSTEAD, WHEN THEY GOT THERE—

MECHIE: HE WANTED ME TO GO INSIDE WITH HIM, AND HE WANTED ME TO SEARCH THE MAN WHEN HE PUT THAT KNIFE AROUND HIS NECK. AND THE MAN HAD A WATCH, UH, A WALLET, UM, AND A GUN, AND I FELT IT.

I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY HUNDREDS OF TIMES LIFERS WILL ALWAYS THINK TO THEMSELVES IN THEIR ROOM, SOME QUIET PLACE, HOW THAT CRIME COULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY. I WISHED THAT I WOULD HAVE TOOK THAT GUN AND SHOT MY CO-DEFENDANT. THAT’S WHAT I WISHED.

JULIETA: WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED WAS FAR DIFFERENT FROM THE FANTASY SHE’D LATER ENVISION IN HER CELL  —

MECHIE: WE WENT IN, I SEARCHED HIM. I WENT TO THE SAFE, AND THE MAN HAD TOLD US… HIS NAME IS MR. MICHAEL KERRIGAN. I DON’T WANNA CALL HIM THE MAN BECAUSE HE’S PART OF ME. MR. KERRIGAN SAID, “THERE’S A SAFE OVER THERE. IT’S ALREADY OPEN.” AND I WENT OVER, AND THERE WERE THESE COINS WRAPPED UP IN PAPER. THAT’S ALL THAT WAS IN THE SAFE, AND I TOOK THEM ALL.

JULIETA: MECHIE SAYS WHEN SHE LOOKED OUTSIDE, SHE SAW THE VICTIM’S COWORKER WHO WAS ARRIVING FOR HIS SHIFT.

MECHIE: I SCREAM. AND WHEN I SCREAMED, THE GUN WENT OFF, AND I DIDN’T SEE IT, BUT I KNEW THAT HE HAD KILLED OUR VICTIM. AND HE RAN TO THE DOOR, AND MY FEET ARE, LIKE, STUCK LIKE CEMENT IN THE GROUND.

THAT MAN LOST HIS LIFE FOR $87. NO NUMBER IF I HAD SAID $87 MILLION, THAT MAN LOST HIS LIFE FOR A BILLION DOLLARS, IT WOULDN’T BE WORTH IT.

NO MONEY, NO NOTHING WOULD BE WORTH TAKING SOMEBODY’S LIFE. I CAN TELL YOU THAT. EVEN THOUGH I DIDN’T KILL HIM, I’M RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS DEATH, AND I CAN TELL YOU WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING SOMEBODY.

JULIETA: MECHIE AND THE SHOOTER WENT TO TRIAL – SEPARATELY. BOTH RECEIVED LIFE SENTENCES. MECHIE SAYS SHE NEVER SPOKE TO HIM AGAIN.

MECHIE:  I HATED HIM – FOR USING ME, KNOWING THAT I NEVER KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT HOW TO ROB NOBODY. YOU DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT TO ME. WHY YOU TAKE ME WITH YOU?

JULIETA: HER FIRST FEW DAYS IN PRISON WERE A BLUR —

MECHIE: I WASN’T EVEN THINKING THAT I KILLED ANYBODY, BECAUSE IN MY MIND, I DIDN’T SHOOT NOBODY. I DIDN’T STAB NOBODY. I’M NOT A KILLER. BUT I’M IN JAIL FOR FIRST-DEGREE MURDER.

JULIETA: SHE REMEMBERS BEING IN A ROOM AND A GROUP OF WOMEN READING A NEWSPAPER. THEY KEPT LOOKING AT HER.

MECHIE: AND THEY SAID, “THIS IS YOU.” I WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE. AND I SAID, “OH, GOD.”

MARIA: WHEN WE COME BACK, WE HEAR MORE FROM MECHIE ABOUT HER LIFE IN PRISON, THE CHALLENGES OF ACCESSING HEALTHCARE INSIDE, AND HOW BEING A WOMAN MAKES THE SITUATION ALL THAT MORE COMPLICATED. STAY WITH US, NO TE VAYAS.

BREAK

MARIA: IT’S LATINO USA. I’M MARIA HINOJOSA. WE’VE BEEN HEARING FROM MECHIE ABOUT HOW A TRAUMATIC CHILDHOOD ULTIMATELY LED HER DOWN A ROAD THAT ENDED IN A PRISON CELL. NOW, WE HEAR FROM HER ABOUT WHAT GROWING OLDER – AND SICKER – IN PRISON REALLY FEELS LIKE. SENIOR PRODUCER JULIETA MARTINELLI WILL CONTINUES THE STORY HERE.

JULIETA: AND THAT’S HOW THE YEARS WENT BY AT SCI MUNCIE. MECHIE SAYS SHE WAS FAR FROM A MODEL PRISONER IN THE BEGINNING. SHE RAN AWAY THREE TIMES. ON ONE OCCASION, SHE WAS CAUGHT A COUPLE OF MONTHS LATER –

MECHIE:  I WAS EIGHT WEEKS PREGNANT.

JULIETA: SHE SAYS SHE GAVE BIRTH IN SHACKLES.

MECHIE: I HAD A LITTLE GIRL, AND THAT LITTLE GIRL IS IN HER 40S NOW. I NEVER GOT TO RAISE HER.

JULIETA: THE BABY’S AUNT ON HER FATHER’S SIDE TOOK CUSTODY.

MECHIE: I SAID, “WHEN SHE GETS OLD ENOUGH TO CALL YOU ANYTHING, LET HER CALL YOU MOM.” BECAUSE MY MOTHER DIED WHEN I WAS THREE, AND WHEN I ASKED MY AUNT ABOUT FIVE YEARS OLD,, “COULD I CALL HER MOMMY?” SHE SAID, “NO,”. AND THAT HURT ME. AND I NEVER WANTED MY DAUGHTER TO FEEL LIKE I FELT WHEN I WAS DENIED CALLING SOMEBODY MOM.

JULIETA: EVENTUALLY, MECHIE WAS ABLE TO ATTEND THERAPY IN PRISON. SHE SAYS SHE SPOKE OUT LOUD FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH OTHER WOMEN ABOUT THE ABUSE SHE HAD ENDURED. ABOUT THE SHAME SHE CARRIED SO DEEP INSIDE OF HER. ABOUT THE TERRIBLE THING THAT SHE WAS A PART OF, JUST SO SHE COULD FEEL VALUED BY A MAN SHE DIDN’T EVEN KNOW.

MECHIE: LOATHED MYSELF FOR WHAT I DID. I AM A PERSON OF EMBARRASSMENT, I AM A PERSON OF REGRET. I AM A PERSON OF NEGLIGENCE. I AM A PERSON OF BAD… BUT I AM ALSO A PERSON OF GOOD. TODAY I AM A PERSON OF GOOD. YOU KNOW, M- MY LIFE IS WORTH SOMETHING NOW. IT WASN’T BEFORE, BUT IT’S WORTH SOMETHING NOW.

JULIETA: MECHIE SAYS SHE HAS NOWBEEN SOBER FOR OVER 30 YEARS. IN PRISON, SHE SAYS SHE MADE IT HER MISSION TO HELP OTHER WOMEN DO THE SAME.

MECHIE’S STORY IS RIFE WITH TRAUMA – BUT AS SHE TELLS US, IT’S NOT SO DIFFERENT FROM THE EXPERIENCES OF MANY OF THE WOMEN SHE MET IN PRISON.

A RECENT STUDY BY THE COUNCIL OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE ESTIMATES THAT ABOUT 70% OF INCARCERATED WOMEN REPORT BEING VICTIMS OF ABUSE OR SEXUAL ASSAULT IN THEIR CHILDHOOD. WOMEN IN PRISON ALSO CONSISTENTLY REPORT HIGHER RATES OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND ADDICTION. ALL OF THESE FACTORS RAISE THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THESE WOMEN WILL HAVE MORE SEVERE HEALTH ISSUES, ESPECIALLY AS THEY GET OLDER.

PEOPLE WHO STUDY ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE IN PRISON SAY THAT INSTITUTIONS ARE NOT PREPARED TO ADDRESS COMPLEX HEALTHCARE NEEDS, LIKE THESE. MECHIE SAYS HER EXPERIENCE WITH THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM WAS BASICALLY NONEXISTENT.

MECHIE: YOU MEAN THE CARE THAT HEALTH GIVE YOU OR YOUR OWN HEALTH THAT YOU CARE FOR? ‘CAUSE THERE IS NO HEALTHCARE. MM-HMM. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COME TO, UH, PLAY DOCTOR ON US…

JULIETA: MECHIE SAYS AS SHE GOT OLDER, SHE BEGAN TO LOSE FRIENDS ONE BY ONE. SOME TO CANCER AND OTHERS TO VARIOUS OTHER ILLNESSES. IT WAS FROM THESE WOMEN THAT SHE LEARNED TO TAKE METICULOUS CARE OF HERSELF AND TO NOTE ANY CHANGES IN HER BODY.

MECHIE: THIS ONE DAY, I GET IN THE SHOWER- YEAH … AND I FEEL THIS KNOT. AND I SAID, “OH, SHOOT, THAT HAD TO COME OVERNIGHT. LET ME JUMP ON THIS SHIT NOW. WHAT IS INSIDE OF ME?”

JULIETA: MECHIE SAYS SHE PUT IN A REQUEST FOR A VISIT IN THE PRISON INFIRMARY. SHE SAVED UP HER MONEY FOR THE $5 CO-PAY — YES, INCARCERATED PEOPLE ALSO HAVE A COPAY.

MECHIE: PAID MY $5. I SAID, “LOOK, A KNOT JUST POPPED UP OVER ME, ON ME OVERNIGHT. I NEED A CHECK FOR CANCER.” SO IT TOOK THEM, LIKE, A, A, A MONTH TO PUT ME ON THE LIST FOR ULTRASOUND, THEY SAID IT WAS FINE, THAT I WAS ON A STAGE II.

JULIETA: BUT MECHIE DIDN’T TRUST THE RESULTS. SHE WANTED TO ATTACK CANCER AS HARD AS POSSIBLE. SHE WANTED TO LIVE. SO, SHE INSISTED ON ANOTHER OPINION – SHE WANTED TO SEE A DOCTOR AT A HOSPITAL.

MECHIE: THEY FINALLY CAME BACK A MONTH LATER AND TOOK ME OUT TO SEE THE, UM, ONCOLOGIST.

HE DID MY OWN, HIS OWN, AND A HALF AN HOUR LATER, HE CAME BACK AND HE SAID, “MS. SCOTT?” AND HE SAT DOWN. I SAID, “YEAH.” HE SAID, “I’M SORRY TO TELL YOU, YOU HAVE BREAST CANCER.”

JULIETA: SHE BEGAN CHEMOTHERAPY. BECAUSE MITCHIE WAS NOT TERMINAL SHE COULDN’T APPLY FOR COMPASSIONATE RELEASE. BUT MECHIE COULD APPLY FOR SOMETHING CALLED COMMUTATION – THAT’S A PROCESS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY REDUCE HER LIFE SENTENCE AND ALLOW HER TO BE RELEASED FROM PRISON. MITCHIE HAD TRIED ONCE TO APPLY BUT HAD BEEN DENIED. SHE DECIDED TO TRY AGAIN WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE ABOLITIONIST LAW CENTER, WHO ALSO REPRESENTED FRANK ROSS.

MECHIE SAYS THAT MANY PEOPLE WROTE LETTERS OF SUPPORT, INCLUDING SOME WITHIN THE PRISON ADMINISTRATION. SUPPORTERS ON THE OUTSIDE MADE CALLS AND WROTE LETTERS TO THE GOVERNOR AND THE BOARD OF PAROLE ASKING FOR HER RELEASE.

BY THEN, LEROY SAXTON – THE ACTUAL SHOOTER – WAS ALREADY FREE. HE WAS RESENTENCED AND RELEASED FROM PRISON YEARS PRIOR WHEN LAWS GOVERNING JUVENILE LIFE SENTENCES WERE AMENDED.

AND YET MECHIE, WHO RECEIVED A LIFE SENTENCE FOR MURDER DESPITE NOT KILLING ANYONE HERSELF, WAS STILL IN PRISON. SUPPORTERS ASKED THE STATE TO CONSIDER THE FIFTY YEARS SHE SPENT INSIDE, HER REHABILITATION AND HER ILLNESS.

MECHIE: AND I USED THE REST OF THAT TIME IN MUNCIE FIGHTING BREAST CANCER TO THE POINT WHERE I SAID, “JUST TAKE THE OTHER ONE, TOO. I DON’T WANT EITHER ONE OF THEM ‘CAUSE I DON’T EVER WANNA GO THROUGH WHAT I WENT THROUGH TRYING TO GET RID OF BREAST CANCER.”

JULIETA: EVENTUALLY, SHE HAD A DOUBLE MASTECTOMY TOO.

MECHIE: SO NOW I DON’T HAVE ANY BREASTS, BUT I DON’T WANT CANCER COMING UP IN ME THROUGH NO BREASTS, YOU KNOW? SO IF IT COMES AGAIN, IT’S GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK SOMEWHERE ELSE

MARIA: WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK.

[BREAK]

MARIA: AND WE’RE BACK. SENIOR PRODUCER JULIETA MARTINELLI CONTINUES FROM HERE.

JULIETA: MECHIE SAYS UNDERGOING CHEMOTHERAPY AND A DOUBLE MASTECTOMY WAS DIFFICULT – AND PAINFUL. SHE MADE A POINT TO SPEAKING TO THE YOUNGER WOMEN, AND PASSING ON THE WISDOM SHE HAD RECEIVED.

MECHIE: AND I TELL THE WOMEN, I SAID, “YOU GOTTA SPEAK UP FOR YOURSELF. TELL THEM YOU WANT MORE THAN A MAMMOGRAM. YOU WANT A 3D BECAUSE YOUR BREASTS ARE DENSE. DON’T LET THEM TELL YOU THAT YOU CAN’T HAVE IT, AND IF THEY DO TELL YOU THAT, LET ME KNOW.”

JULIETA: WHILE WE’RE RECORDING OUR INTERVIEW, MECHIE RECEIVES A CALL FROM PRISON.

MECHIE:  THIS CALL IS SUBJECT TO RECORDING AND MONITORING.

JULIETA: IT’S HER FRIEND TERRY, CALLING TO CHECK UP ON HER. MITCHIE AND TERRY WERE CELLMATES LIKE THIRTY YEARS AGO BUT THEY ARE STILL CLOSE FRIENDS.

TERRY:  SHE HAS BEEN SUCH A GREAT FRIEND TO ME, AND IT HAS BEEN A BLESSING TO HAVE HER IN MY CORNER AND TO BE IN HERS.

JULIETA: MECHIE ASKS TERRY IF SHE WOULD BE WILLING TO TALK TO US AND TELL US ABOUT HER OWN STRUGGLES WITH PRISON HEALTHCARE –

TERRY: I’VE HAD SEVEN SURGERIES IN 15 YEARS.

MITCHIE: WOW.

TERRY: SO BETWEEN MY CARPAL TUNNEL, MY HYSTERECTOMY, MY FOOT SURGERY, MY TWO BACK SURGERIES. … IT’S BEEN A, IT’S BEEN ROUGH.

JULIETA: TERRY SAYS IT’S DIFFICULT TO GET A DIAGNOSIS- LET ALONE TREATMENT.

TERRY: FORTUNATELY FOR ME, I HAVE A VERY STRONG SUPPORT SYSTEM AND FAMILY. SO WHEN SOMETHING IS WRONG, I CAN VOICE IT. THEY WILL DO RESEARCH FOR ME, AND THEN I GO INTO THE DOCTOR’S CLINIC OR THE SICK CALL AND SAY, “OKAY, NOW THIS IS WHAT I KNOW. WHAT YOU GONNA DO?” SO I THINK THAT HAS MADE MY WAY EASIER, BUT WATCHING OTHER PEOPLE AROUND ME GET SICK AND NOT HAVE THAT HAS REALLY BEEN A CHALLENGE. THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM THAT THEY BOUGHT INTO SUCKS.

JULIETA: TERRY IS REFERRING TO PENNSYLVANIA’S PRIVATE PRISON HEALTHCARE SYSTEM. ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, PRIVATE COMPANIES BID FOR CONTRACTS WITH PRISONS. ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS OFTEN TELL THE TAXPAYERS THAT THIS IS A GOOD THING – THAT IT’S CHEAPER FOR THE STATE AND THEY’RE PASSING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF HEALTHCARE TO PROFESSIONALS. IT SOUNDS GOOD ON PAPER.

THE PROBLEM IS, PRIVATE COMPANIES ARE INCENTIVIZED TO REDUCE SPENDING AND MAXIMIZE PROFIT, AND THERE’S LITTLE OVERSIGHT. ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND OVER THE YEARS THERE HAVE BEEN THOUSANDS OF REPORTS OF NEGLECT, FAILURE TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE CARE, WORKING WITH DOCTORS WHO’VE LOST THEIR MEDICAL LICENSES AMONG OTHER ISSUES.

TERRY SAYS EVEN THE MOST BASIC OF MEDICAL NEEDS CAN BECOME A MONTHS OR EVEN YEARS-LONG PROCESS THAT REQUIRES PUTTING UP A FIGHT.

TERRY: A PRIME EXAMPLE, I HAD ISSUES WITH MY FOOT. IT TOOK ME FIVE YEARS TO GET PERMISSION JUST TO EVEN PAY FOR MY OWN SHOES, BECAUSE WHAT THEY WERE SELLING ON COMMISSARY WASN’T WHAT THE FOOT SPECIALIST AND PHYSICAL THERAPIST SAID THAT I SHOULD HAVE.SAYING THAT NOW EVERY SHOE THAT I GET HAS TO BE UNDER $100 AS FAR AS ITS VALUE. . NONE OF THOSE SHOES ARE LESS THAN 160 BUCKS.

JULIETA: SHOES A DOCTOR HAD PRESCRIBED. SHOES THAT SHE WAS WILLING TO PAY FOR. AND STILL, TERRY SAYS IT TOOK YEARS FOR THE PRISON TO APPROVE THE REQUEST.

TERRY: EVERYTHING IS SO COOKIE CUTTER, IN AND OUT, QUICK, QUICK, QUICK.. THEY DON’T LISTEN, AND THEM NOT LISTENING HAS BEEN TO THE DETRIMENT OF HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE. I HAVE TO GET OFF THE PHONE ‘CAUSE IT’S SOMEBODY’S PHONE CALL, Y’ALL. ALL RIGHT. I WILL TRY TO CALL YOU LATER. AND MICHY, I LOVE YOU. I’LL TALK TO YOU SOON.

JULIETA: MECHIE TELLS ME THAT SHE DOESN’T HAVE THAT MANY FRIENDS LEFT AROUND HER AGE. MANY HAVE DIED INSIDE. SHE IS ONE OF THE SURVIVORS – AND ONE OF THE ONLY ONES TO BE GRANTED HER FREEDOM. THAT CAME ABOUT ON JANUARY 7 OF THIS YEAR. WHEN HER COMMUTATION WAS APPROVED AND SHE WAS RELEASED FROM PRISON INTO A HALFWAY HOUSE IN PHILADELPHIA. ALL SHE HAD WITH HER WAS A BAG AND A 5 DAY SUPPLY OF HER MEDICATION.

MECHIE: I’M SUPPOSED TO BE ON MEDICINE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE, A PILL IN THE MORNING AND A PILL AT NIGHT, TO KEEP IT FROM COMING BACK SOMEWHERE ELSE IN ME. SO WHO’S TO SAY IT’S NOT GONNA POP UP SOMEWHERE ELSE?

JULIETA: MECHIE TELLS ME SHE HASN’T TAKEN HER MEDICATION IN OVER TWO WEEKS. NOW THAT SHE’S FREE IT IS HER RESPONSIBILITY TO SIGN UP FOR MEDICARE, OR TO FIND HEALTH INSURANCE, SEEK OUT A MEDICAL PROVIDER…YOU NAME IT.

MECHIE: I GUESS THAT’S INCUMBENT UPON ME, WHO HAS NEVER EVEN FILLED OUT AN APPLICATION BEFORE. IN JAIL THEY DO ALL THAT SHIT FOR YOU. I DON’T KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF MEDICAL NEEDS. I’M LEARNING. JUST LIKE I LEARNED THE PHONE, I’M LEARNING HOW TO FIND WAYS TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF THROUGH THE PHONE. SO I’M TRYING TO GET SOCIAL SECURITY. I’M TRYING TO GET MEDICARE. I WROTE ALL THESE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

JULIETA: MECHIE SAYS SHE IS NOW IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING THE SUPPORT SHE NEEDS. BUT AS HARD AS IT IS TO START OVER WHILE RECOVERING FROM CANCER… SHE SAYS, AT LEAST NOW, SHE’S FREE.

MECHIE: RIGHT NOW, IT DOESN’T EVEN FEEL LIKE I HAVE FEET, BECAUSE EVERYTHING I DO IS FLOAT. YOU KNOW? IT’S ON A FLOAT. AND THINGS THAT I SEE THAT PEOPLE TAKE FOR GRANTED IS HUGE TO ME.

JULIETA: WHAT KIND OF STUFF?

MECHIE: LIKE PUPPIES WALKING DOWN THE STREET WITH THEIR LEASHES. I AM LIKE A BABOON IN A CAR WHEN I SEE A PUPPY… EVERYTHING IS ANIMATED. THAT’S THE BEST WAY I CAN EXPLAIN COMING OUT INTO FREEDOM AFTER BEING SO LONG. I HAD A FRIEND OF MINE, FROM AN ORGANIZATION THAT WAS DOING PAINTINGS OR PICTURES OF WHAT WE THOUGHT FREEDOM WOULD BE LIKE BEFORE WE HAD EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO GET IT. SO I TOLD THEM, “FREEDOM, TO ME, WOULD BE LIKE ME STANDING ON MARS AND LOOKING DOWN AT EARTH,” AND I’M SEEING… I’M GETTING READY TO GET A SHIP TO BE TRANSPORTED TO EARTH. BUT IN THE MEANTIME, YOU SEE ALL THESE THOUGHTS COMING OUT OF MY HEAD, LIKE, “WHAT IS A MICROWAVE? I NEVER… WHAT IS A F- IPHONE?” I’VE NEVER HAD THESE THINGS IN MY HAND. SO ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT PEOPLE TAKE FOR GRANTED ARE HUGE DEFERRED DREAMS TO ME. MM. ‘LIFE WAS A DEFERRED DREAM UNTIL I WOKE UP OUTSIDE, YOU KNOW?

JULIETA: SO DID IT LOOK LIKE YOU THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD WHEN YOU WERE IMAGINING BEING ON MARS AND-

MECHIE: YEAH. NO. NO? NO. IT WAS BETTER. IT WAS BETTER.

JULIETA: MECHIE HAS NOW BEEN FREE FOR MORE THAN 5 MONTHS. SHE’S BUILDING A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER DAUGHTER AND GRANDSON, AND IS LOOKING FORWARD TO MOVING AWAY FROM THE HALFWAY HOUSE INTO HER OWN PLACE EVENTUALLY.

SHE’S FINALLY BACK ON HER MEDICATION AND LEARNING HOW TO NAVIGATE THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM ON THE OUTSIDE.

SHE’S ALSO BEEN MORE OPEN TO SHARING HER STORY AND EXPERIENCES WITH CANCER INSIDE – AND SUPPORTING AN EFFORT TO REFORM THE SYSTEM.

LAWYERS AND ADVOCATES IN PENNSYLVANIA ARE ASKING THE STATE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE AGING POPULATION AND ARE SUPPORTING A BILL THAT WOULD EXPAND ACCESS TO MEDICAL TRANSFERS – OR COMPASSIONATE RELEASE – SO SOMEONE LIKE MECHIE COULD SEEK OUT BETTER QUALITY HEALTHCARE ON THE OUTSIDE BEFORE BEING CONSIDERED TERMINALLY ILL.

WE’LL DELVE INTO THOSE REFORM EFFORTS ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF RELEASED TO DIE. AND WE GO BACK TO FRANK ROSS, AND AN UNEXPECTED HURDLE HE’S NOW FACING…

SUAVE: THE DOC ALREADY PUT A PETITION TO REVOKE HIS COMPASSIONATE RELEASE. [GASP] THEY TOOK IT TO THE COURTS AND NOW WE GOTTA GO TO COURT TUESDAY.

JULIETA: THAT’S NEXT TIME ON THE FINAL CHAPTER OF RELEASED TO DIE.

[CREDITS]

MARIA: THIS EPISODE WAS PRODUCED BY JULIETA MARTINELLI AND EDITED BY MARLON BISHOP.

IT WAS MIXED BY STEPHANIE LEBOW. SCORING AND SOUND DESIGN BY JACOB ROSATI

FACT CHECKING FOR THIS EPISODE BY ROXANA AGUIRRE.

FERNANDA ECHAVARRI IS OUR MANAGING EDITOR. NANCY TRUJILLO IS OUR PRODUCTION MANAGER.

THE LATINO USA TEAM ALSO INCLUDES REYNALDO LEAÑOS JR., LUIS LUNA, GLORIMAR MARQUEZ, JJ QUERUBIN, ADREANNA RODRIGUEZ, AND NICOLE ROTHWELL

PENILEY RAMIREZ AND I ARE EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS

I’M YOUR HOST MARIA HINOJOSA.

“LATINO USA IS PART OF I-HEART’S MY CULTURA PODCAST NETWORK. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS AT IHEART ARE LEO [LEE-O] GOMEZ AND ARLENE [ARE-LEEN] SANTANA.

JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME AND IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN FIND US ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND DON’T FORGET TO JOIN FUTURO+ TO LISTEN AD-FREE AND GET BONUS EPISODES AND SPECIAL VIRTUAL EVENTS. BY JOINING, YOU’LL SUPPORT THE KIND OF REPORTING THAT MAKES EPISODES LIKE THIS ONE POSSIBLE! SO THANK YOU!

CIAO!

If you are interested in this topic, check out the podcast series Dying on the Inside: Women Lifers at Muncy Prison. At Pennsylvania’s State Correctional Institution Muncy, roughly 150 women serving life sentences, many incarcerated during the height of mass incarceration in the 1980s and 1990s, are now aging behind bars. Across the country, incarcerated women are experiencing accelerated aging, with chronic illnesses often appearing by age 35 and infirmary visits skyrocketing. Prisons like SCI Muncy are ill-equipped to meet the complex needs of aging women, as poor nutrition, limited exercise, and inadequate healthcare have contributed to a growing but largely overlooked public health crisis.

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