Podcast

Back to Top

Transcription

RELEASED TO DIE EPISODE 3

MARIA: WHEN YOU VISIT FRANK ROSS, YOU NEVER REALLY KNOW HOW IT’S GOING TO GO UNTIL YOU WALK THROUGH THE DOOR OF HIS ROOM AT THE HEALTHCARE FACILITY WHERE HE’S LIVING NOW. WITH DEMENTIA, SOME DAYS ARE GOOD — AND OTHERS… WELL, THEY CAN BE REALLY BAD.

JULIETA:  SO WE’RE GETTING READY TO LEAVE, FRANK, AND THE LAST COUPLE HOURS WERE ROUGH.

MARIA: THAT’S PRODUCER JULIETA MARTINELLI, WHO HAS BEEN VISITING THE 93-YEAR OLD MAN TO DOCUMENT HIS EFFORTS TO DIE WITH DIGNITY OUTSIDE OF PRISON. FRANK WAS MEDICALLY TRANSFERRED OUT OF PRISON IN JANUARY UNDER PENNSYLVANIA’S STATUTE MOST COMMONLY KNOWN AS “COMPASSIONATE RELEASE.”

JULIETA: HE, I GUESS, HASN’T BEEN TAKING HIS MEDICATION AND WAS ADAMANT THAT SUAVE NOT LEAVE HIM.

MARIA: AFTER A DAY TOGETHER, FRANK BEGS SUAVE, HIS FRIEND AND MENTEE, TO PLEASE TAKE HIM HOME WITH HIM. HE DOESN’T WANT TO BE AT THE FACILITY ANYMORE. SUAVE IS PATIENT AND KIND WITH FRANK. HE EXPLAINS YET AGAIN THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, THEY DON’T HAVE PERMISSION TO LEAVE. AT LEAST NOT YET. BUT SUAVE LOVES FRANK LIKE A FATHER. AND WHEN THEY LEAVE, IT’S CLEAR THAT SEEING FRANK STRUGGLE IS WEIGHING ON HIM –

JULIETA: AND I DON’T KNOW, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE EMOTIONAL TOLL. HOW DO YOU FEEL?

SUAVE: THIS IS WHAT COME WITH TAKING CARE OF SOMEBODY YOU CARE FOR. YOU GOTTA DEAL WITH IT, THAT’S PART OF BRINGING HIM HOME. HE DON’T UNDERSTAND, LIKE I CAN’T TAKE HIM WITH ME, EVEN IF I WANTED TO, I CAN’T. YOU KNOW, HIS DEMENTIA IS AT, LIKE, AT THE R- EARLY, EARLY STAGE FOR 93 WHERE IF YOU TALK ABOUT PRESENT STUFF, YOU LOSE HIM. BUT IF YOU TALK ABOUT HIS LIFE, HE’S THERE. HE COULD REMEMBER, LIKE, ABOUT HIS MOTHER, HIS CHILDHOOD. SO HE REMEMBERS SOME THINGS. HE KNOW WHAT HE WANT AND HE KNOWS HE DON’T WANNA BE HERE. ‘CAUSE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT HE KNOWS, LIKE, “WHY AM I HERE? WHY IS THEY PUSHING ME AROUND?”

MARIA: THIS IS NOT THE LIFE FRANK ENVISIONED AFTER RELEASE – NOR SUAVE WHEN HE PRAYED AND HOPED THAT FRANK WOULD BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE PRISON AMIDST HIS GROWING HEALTH ISSUES.

[BEAT]

MARIA: ALL FRANK WANTS NOW IS TO SPEND TIME WITH HIS FAMILY,, AND FOR THE WORLD TO KNOW THIS FORMERLY IMPRISONED WRITER IS STILL WRITING. THIS IS THE REALITY OF COMPASSIONATE RELEASE – IN A SYSTEM THAT MANDATES WAITING UNTIL THE VERY END TO BE FREE. AND AS CHALLENGING AS IT’S BEEN, IT’S ABOUT TO GET EVEN MORE COMPLICATED.

[LUSA THEME]

MARIA: FROM FUTURO MEDIA, IT’S LATINO USA, I’M MARIA HINOJOSA. TODAY, RELEASED TO DIE: PART THREE. IN THIS THREE-EPISODE MINISERIES, WE FOLLOW FRANK ROSS, A 93-YEAR-OLD MAN SENTENCED TO DIE IN PRISON, AND HIS JOURNEY TO THE OUTSIDE THROUGH COMPASSIONATE RELEASE. FRANK’S CASE HIGHLIGHTS ONE OF THE FASTEST-GROWING TRENDS IN INCARCERATION IN THE US, SOMETHING EXPERTS CALL THE GRAYING OF AMERICAN PRISONS. WE ARE ALSO TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO PENNSYLVANIA’S COMPASSIONATE RELEASE PROGRAM, HOW HEALTHCARE INSIDE PRISONS IS FAILING OLDER PEOPLE, AND WHAT IT MEANS TO HAVE A CHANCE TO DIE FREE.

[THEME MUSIC END]

MARIA: AS THE MONTHS PASS, FRANK CONTINUES TO FIGHT TO MAKE PROGRESS. HE’S ATTENDING PHYSICAL THERAPY. DOING HIS LITTLE WORKOUTS. AND LEARNING HOW TO GET IN AND OUT OF HIS WHEELCHAIR AND INTO HIS BED. THEN, IN EARLY APRIL, ANOTHER PHONE CALL CHANGES THINGS – AGAIN. THIS TIME, THE NEWS ON THE OTHER END OF THE LINE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE CALL THAT ALERTED US TO FRANK’S IMPENDING FREEDOM. IN FACT THIS CALL IS QUITE THE OPPOSITE. SENIOR PRODUCER JULIETA MARTINELLI PICKS UP THE STORY FROM HERE.

PHONE RING

SUAVE:  HELLO?

JULIETA: HEY, I’M RECORDING. WHAT’S GOING ON?

SUAVE: OH, MAN. YOU KNOW FRANK ROSS, HE LOST ALL THAT WEIGHT, SO THEY HAD TO COME AND PUT A DIFFERENT, ANKLE MONITOR.

JULIETA: WHEN I MET FRANK, HE WAS A LARGE MAN. WHEN I SAW HIM AGAIN ON ONE OF THOSE TRIPS, IT WAS SHOCKING TO SEE HOW MUCH SMALLER HE SEEMED. SUAVE SAID HE HAS LOST MORE THAN 60 POUNDS SINCE HIS RELEASE –  MOST OF IT HAPPENED RELATIVELY RECENTLY. NOT LONG AFTER THAT VISIT, FRANK’S ANKLE MONITOR SLIPPED OFF HIS ANKLE.

SUAVE: YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT THERE WAS- YEAH … AN ISSUE WITH THAT A COUPLE DAYS AGO.

JULIETA: PEOPLE, LIKE FRANK, WHO ARE RELEASED UNDER COMPASSIONATE RELEASE –  MUST WEAR A GPS ANKLE MONITOR AT ALL TIMES. IT’S PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS. BASICALLY – A WAY FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS – TO KEEP TABS ON WHERE A PERSON IS AT ALL TIMES. EVEN THOUGH, AS A SENIOR CITIZEN RELEASED TO A HEALTHCARE FACILITY DUE TO ILLNESS, FRANK CAN HARDLY WALK.

SUAVE: SO THE D.O.C. CAME IN TO TRY TO PUT A NEW ANKLE MONITOR, AND HE REFUSED.

JULIETA: IT SHOULD’VE BEEN A SIMPLE THING – BUT ON THAT DAY, SUAVE SAYS HE WASN’T THERE TO HELP. SUAVE SAYS HE WAS TOLD THAT FRANK REFUSED TO LET THE LIEUTENANT FROM THE D.O.C. PUT THE MONITOR BACK ON. HE DIDN’T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON. HE WAS CONFUSED AND SCARED. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE BAD DAYS. SO, SOMEONE CALLED SUAVE. HOPING THAT HEARING FROM HIM WOULD HELP FRANK. BUT INSTEAD-

SUAVE: HE CURSED ME OUT. HE SAID, “YOU’RE NOT SUAVE. BRING ME THE REAL SUAVE. YOU’RE AN IMPOSTER. I DON’T KNOW YOU.”

JULIETA: SUAVE SAID THE OFFICER FROM THE D.O.C. UNDERSTOOD THAT FRANK WAS UNDER DISTRESS.

SUAVE: I TOLD THE LIEUTENANT, “LIEUTENANT, HE’S NINETY-THREE YEARS OLD. HIS, HIS, HIS DEMENTIA IS PROGRESSING.” LIKE, HE’S LIKE, “YEAH, BUT I HAVE TO WRITE A REPORT.” THAT’S WHAT THE LIEUTENANT SAID.

JULIETA: HE’S NINETY-THREE AND HE CAN’T WALK. HE’S– WHO–

JULIETA: NOT LONG AFTER, THE D.O.C. FILED A MOTION WITH THE COURT — LETTING THE JUDGE KNOW THAT FRANK WAS REFUSING THE ANKLE MONITOR. AND THEREFORE, VIOLATING THE AGREEMENT FOR RELEASE.

SUAVE: NOW IT GOES BACK TO THE JUDGE. SO I DON’T KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON, SO I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT’S GONNA HAPPEN. I WILL FIND OUT MONDAY.  THE D.O.C. HAS TO GO IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE. AND THE LIEUTENANT WAS REAL NICE., HE SAID, “I’M NOT ONE OF THEM PEOPLE THAT’S GONNA FORCE THIS. I’M NOT GONNA PHYSICALLY PUT IT ON HIM ‘CAUSE HE’S NINETY-THREE YEARS OLD.”

JULIETA: NO, OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT FEELS MORE, EVEN MORE CRUEL TO BE LIKE, “WE HAVE TO TAKE YOU BACK TO PRISON.” LIKE, YOU CAN’T PUT A MONITOR ON HIM, BUT YOU CAN HAUL HIM BACK TO PRISON?

JULIETA: BUT…THAT’S EXACTLY HOW THE LAW WORKS. SHORTLY AFTER, A HEARING WAS SET ON THE COURT CALENDAR. FRANK WAS NOW FACING PRISON – WITHOUT THE COGNITIVE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND WHY. I ARRIVED IN PHILLY ON APRIL 28, JUST A FEW DAYS LATER.

JULIETA: I AM OUT OF BREATH. I’M TRYING TO MAKE MY WAY THROUGH THE PHILADELPHIA AIRPORT,. WE TOOK A LAST-MINUTE FLIGHT AT SIX AM TO TRY AND MAKE IT TO FRANK’S HEARING…

JULIETA: AS I RUN TO CATCH AN UBER TO THE COURTHOUSE, IWONDER IF FRANK HAS ANY IDEA HOW MUCH A RISK HE’S FACING – AND HOW BIG OF A DAY TODAY IS FOR HIM.

[MUSIC]

[AMBI]

JULIETA: I MAKE IT TO COURT JUST IN TIME FOR HIS CASE TO BE CALLED. THERE IS NO RECORDING ALLOWED IN THE COURT ROOM, SO I SQUEEZE IN THE LAST ROW OF A CROWDED BENCH TO WITNESS THE PROCEEDINGS. ONE BY ONE, THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, FRANK’S LAWYERS AND THE JUDGE GO AROUND AND AROUND ARGUING THE ISSUE. THE D.O.C. ARGUES THE LAW IS SIMPLE – HE EITHER AGREES TO PUT ON A MONITOR OR HE NEEDS TO GO BACK TO PRISON.

[TIK TOK]

JULIETA: FRANK’S LAWYERS ASK FOR ACCOMMODATIONS BECAUSE OF HIS HEALTH ISSUES- THEY SAY THAT EVEN IF THEY CAN PUT THE MONITOR BACK ON, FRANK’S HEALTH ISSUES CAUSE WATER RETENTION AND SWELLING. IF HIS ANKLES SWELL AGAIN, THE MONITOR COULD INJURE HIM. IF IT’S TOO LOOSE, IT WILL FALL OFF AGAIN. THEY ASK THE D.O.C. TO CONSIDER USING A DIFFERENT MONITOR – ONE THAT THEY CAN PUT ON HIS WRIST, OR EVEN ON HIS WHEELCHAIR.

[TIK TOK]

JULIETA: THEY REMIND THE COURT THAT FRANK CAN’T WALK. THAT PATIENTS ON THE MEMORY CARE FLOOR WHERE HE RESIDES DON’T HAVE ACCESS TO AN ELEVATOR, THAT THEY ARE UNDER 24/7 CARE – THEY SAY HE’S BASICALLY UNDER LOCKDOWN ALREADY.

[TIK TOK]

JULIETA: SUAVE IS CALLED TO THE STAND. HE TESTIFIES THAT HE’S FRANK’S CARETAKER. ABOUT THE COGNITIVE DECLINE HE’S WITNESSED AND WHY FRANK SUDDENLY NO LONGER UNDERSTANDS WHY HE NEEDS TO WEAR A MONITOR. SUAVE PROMISES THAT HE WILL GET FRANK TO AGREE TO PUT THE MONITOR BACK ON IF THEY COULD JUST HAVE MORE TIME. NEARLY AN HOUR PASSES LIKE THIS – BACK AND FORTH. THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS WILL NOT BUDGE ON THE MONITOR – AND THEY REFUSE TO CONSIDER PUTTING ELSEWHERE ON HIS BODY – LIKE AROUND HIS WRIST – WHERE IT MIGHT BE LESS PAINFUL OR CONFUSING FOR FRANK.

[MUSIC…AMBI NOISES FROM THE COURTHOUSE]

JULIETA: THEN, THE JUDGE MAKES HIS RULING. OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE, I CATCH UP TO FRANK’S LAWYERS FOR THE VERDICT.

RUPALEE RASHATWAR: THE JUDGE IS GIVING EVERYBODY A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO TRY AGAIN TO PUT THE MONITOR ON HIM WHEN HE HAS SOME TRUSTED INDIVIDUALS AROUND HIM.

JULIETA: THAT’S ATTORNEY  RUPALEE RASHATWAR. SHE’S THERE WITH LOLO SERRANO FROM THE ABOLITIONIST LAW CENTER IN PA AND THEY HAVE REPRESENTED FRANK THROUGH THE ENTIRE COMPASSIONATE RELEASE APPLICATION – AND THEY’VE DONE THE SAME FOR MANY OTHERS.  THEY TELL ME THE HEARING SHOWS HOW THESE COMPASSIONATE RELEASE CASES – AS DIFFICULT AS THEY ARE TO WIN –  ARE NEVER REALLY QUITE FINISHED —

RUPALEE RASHATWAR:  IT’S JUST UNIMAGINABLY CRUEL. AS A RESULT OF HIS SICKNESS, HE’S GONNA KEEP DECLINING. HE’S GONNA HAVE COGNITIVE DECLINE, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, CAN’T UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE CONDITIONS AND COMPLY WITH THEM.

SUAVE: EVERYBODY KNOWS HE’S NOT GOING ANYWHERE. HE’S NOT A FLIGHT RISK. HE’S NOT A DANGER. AND, UH, EVEN SO, THE DEPARTMENT’S STILL MOVING TO TRY TO SEND HIM BACK TO PRISON.

JULIETA: THE JUDGE HAS GIVEN THEM SIX DAYS TO GET FRANK TO PUT THE MONITOR BACK ON. NEXT MONDAY THE D.O.C. WILL RETURN TO SEE FRANK– IF HE REFUSES…WELL THAT COULD BE IT.

FOR TODAY THOUGH– IT’S A WIN…FRANK REMAINS FREE.  BUT RUPALI SAYS FRANK’S CASE IS REPRESENTATIVE OF A BROADER ISSUE – THE CRUELTY THAT PERMEATES THE WAY THE COMPASSIONATE RELEASE STATUTE IS HANDLED IN THE STATE.

JULIETA: HERE IS LOLO SERRANO.

LOLO SERRANO:  JUST THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA ARE EXCEPTIONALLY CRUEL, LIKE THE DEATH DATE THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TERMINAL DIAGNOSIS, ESSENTIALLY A DOCTOR TELLING YOU HAVE LESS THAN ONE YEAR TO LIVE. AND THEN THE STATUTORY RESTRICTION WE’RE DEALING WITH TODAY IS THIS UNDER ELECTRONIC MONITORING.

[BEAT]

LOLO SERRANO: SO NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO EXCEPTIONALLY ILL, AND THEN AFTER THAT, YOU’RE SUBJECT TO SCRUTINY AND INSTABILITY WHEN YOU’RE TRYING TO LIVE OUT YOUR FINAL DAYS IN PEACE.

JULIETA: THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION IS THAT IF FRANK IS TOO SICK TO UNDERSTAND THAT HE NEEDS TO WEAR AN ANKLE MONITOR, HE WILL BE SENT BACK TO PRISON. DESPITE THAT SAME ILLNESS BEING THE ACTUAL REASON FOR HIS RELEASE IN THE FIRST PLACE…IT REALLY DOESN’T MAKE MUCH SENSE. IT’S ONE OF THE ISSUES WITH HOW THE COMPASSIONATE RELEASE STATUTE IS WRITTEN – IT LEAVES NO WIGGLE ROOM FOR THE REALITY OF DEALING WITH A PERSON WHO IS ILL.

[MUSIC]

MARIA: WHEN WE COME BACK, WE CONTINUE FOLLOWING FRANK’S FIGHT TO REMAIN FREE, AND WE TAKE A LOOK AT A POTENTIAL NEW LAW AIMED AT OVERHAULING THE ENTIRE COMPASSIONATE RELEASE SYSTEM IN PENNSYLVANIA.

STAY WITH US, NOT TE VAYAS,

[BREAK]

MARIA: HEY, WE’RE BACK. BEFORE THE BREAK, WE FOLLOWED FRANK’S LAWYERS IN TO COURT AS THEY FOUGHT THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS’ DEMAND THAT HE GO BACK TO PRISON BECAUSE HE WAS UNWILLING TO PUT ON AN ANKLE MONITOR. NOW, SENIOR PRODUCER JULIETA MARTINELLI CONTINUES WITH THE STORY.

JULIETA: AFTER COURT, SUAVE AND I RUSH OVER TO SEE FRANK. SUAVE IS EAGER TO EXPLAIN TO FRANK THAT THE MEN WILL BE BACK…AND HE WILL NEED TO LET THEM PUT THE MONITOR BACK ON.

[AMBI]

FRANK: HI, HELLO! HOW ARE YOU?

JULIETA: I WALK IN AND HUG FRANK – SUAVE HANGS BACK. BUT I CAN TELL FRANK KNOWS EXACTLY WHO I AM TODAY.

IT’S A GOOD DAY. HIS EYES LIGHT UP. AS I GREET HIM, SUAVE WALKS UP BEHIND HIS WHEELCHAIR AND HUGS HIM TIGHT.

FRANK:  THAT’S A BEAR HUG. THAT’S THE BEST YOU CAN DO? OH MY GOD.

JULIETA: FRANK SMILES WIDE – HE KNOWS SUAVE IS THERE TO SEE HIM.

JULIETA: HI, FRANK.

FRANK: OH MY GOD.

JULIETA: HOW YOU DOING? YOU KNOW WHO’S HUGGING YOU?

FRANK: I KNOW.

JULIETA: THIS CRAZY GUY BEHIND YOU.

FRANK: YOU’RE THE DOG.

JULIETA: HOW YOU DOING TODAY?

FRANK: THEY’VE BEEN DOGGING US. I’M, I’M… I GOT BETTER JUST TO COME HERE …

JULIETA: SUAVE DOESN’T WASTE ANY TIME. FRANK IS SITTING IN HIS WHEELCHAIR, IN FRONT OF THE TV. THE BOX HE BROUGHT FROM PRISON FILLED WITH HIS WRITING IS OPEN NEXT TO HIS BED. SUAVE PULLS UP A CHAIR AND SITS DOWN IN FRONT OF HIM.

SUAVE:  WE JUST CAME FROM COURT.

FRANK: MM-HMM.

SUAVE: WE JUST CAME FROM THE JUDGE.

FRANK: MM-HMM OKAY.

SUAVE: ALL RIGHT? YEAH. SO I GOTTA TALK TO YOU.

FRANK: OH Y- COME ON.

SUAVE: THE D.O.C. IS TRYING TO TAKE YOU BACK TO PRISON.

FRANK: OKAY, THAT’S GOOD.

SUAVE: NO, IT’S NOT GOOD.

FRANK: WHY?

SUAVE: BECAUSE IF YOU GO BACK, YOU’RE NEVER COMING OUT AGAIN. IT’S NOT GOOD.

JULIETA: THE CONVERSATION GOES IN CIRCLES FOR NEARLY AN HOUR – FRANK DOESN’T UNDERSTAND WHY HE RISKS GOING BACK TO PRISON. SUAVE IS PATIENT, HE EXPLAINS THE SAME THING IN DIFFERENT WAYS, MANY TIMES.

SUAVE: WE MANAGED TO CONVINCE THE JUDGE, THAT THERE WAS NO NECESSARY TO TAKE YOU BACK TO PRISON.. I’M BEING HONEST WITH YOU.

FRANK: BUT WHAT HAPPENED-

SUAVE: I DON’T WANT YOU TO GO BACK TO PRISON, RIGHT?

JULIETA: FRANK IS CONFUSED. I CAN SEE THE FEAR IN SUAVE’S EYES – HOW MUCH IS RIDING ON HIM CONVINCING FRANK THAT HE NEEDS TO GET THE MONITOR BACK ON. TO TRY AND KEEP HIM FOCUSED ON THE REAL ISSUE. WITHOUT SCARING OR FRUSTRATING HIM.

[MUSIC]

JULIETA: SITUATIONS LIKE THIS ARE EXACTLY WHY LAWYERS, ACTIVISTS, AND SOME LEGISLATORS IN PENNSYLVANIA HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR A COMPLETE REVAMP OF THE COMPASSIONATE RELEASE LAW. OVER THE LAST YEAR THEY’VE MADE CONSIDERABLE PROGRESS- THROUGH A STATE BILL CALLED HB150.

CELESTE TRUSTY:  HB 150, WHICH WAS INTRODUCED BY STATE REPRESENTATIVE RICK KRAJEWSKI AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE, TORRAN ECKER, SEEKS TO EXPAND ACCESS TO MEDICAL RELEASE FOR CHRONICALLY AND TERMINALLY ILL INCARCERATED PEOPLE…

JULIETA: THAT’S CELESTE TRUSTY. SHE’S A LONGTIME REFORM ADVOCATE, SPEAKING AT A PRESS CONFERENCE ANNOUNCING THAT THE BILL HAD PASSED THE HOUSE WITH BIPARTISAN SUPPORT LAST DECEMBER. SHE WORKED ALONGSIDE A NUMBER OF ORGANIZATIONS, INCLUDING FRANK’S OWN LAWYERS, POLITICIANS AND LOCAL ADVOCATES TO HELP DRUM UP SUPPORT FOR THE BILL.

CELESTE TRUSTY:  HB150 IS AN EXTREMELY NECESSARY PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO MOVE FOR SO LONG

JULIETA: BUT, CELESTE ADMITS THAT BY THE TIME HB150 PASSED THE HOUSE, THE BILL DIDN’T LOOK QUITE AS THEY’D IMAGINED –

CELESTE TRUSTY: THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THIS BILL, IN PREVIOUS SESSIONS THAT ACTUALLY HAD BROADER LANGUAGE THAT LOOKED AT INCLUDING AGE AND MEDICAL NEED. THE LEGISLATURE DIDN’T SEEM INTERESTED IN TAKING A LOOK AT FINDING RELIEF BASED ON WHETHER YOU WERE OLD OR WHETHER YOU WERE SICK, AND SO THE STRATEGY WAS TO NARROW THE BILL LANGUAGE TO JUST HAVE MEDICAL CRITERIA INCLUDED.

JULIETA: THE CURRENT BILL DOESN’T INCLUDE ADVANCED AGE AS REASON ENOUGH TO CONSIDER COMPASSIONATE RELEASE, BUT IT DOES OPEN UP THE REQUIREMENTS RELATED TO ILLNESS. IT WOULD EXPAND TO CONSIDER PEOPLE WHO ARE SERIOUSLY ILL, BUT NOT YET CONSIDERED TERMINAL. PEOPLE THAT,, COULD BE BETTER CARED FOR ON THE OUTSIDE. SOONER. WITHOUT HAVING TO WAIT TO HAVE A SO-CALLED DEATH DATE. HERE’S CELESTE TRUSTY AGAIN.

CELESTE TRUSTY: PRISONS WERE NOT MEANT TO BE NURSING HOMES, BUT THAT’S WHAT IT HAS BECOME, RIGHT? OUR PRISONS HAVE ENDED UP BECOMING SOMETHING WHERE YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE PEOPLE IN WHEELCHAIRS WHO HAVE COMPLETE MOBILITY ISSUES. YOU SEE PEOPLE IN WALKERS. YOU SEE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNABLE TO CARE FOR THEMSELVES. YOU SEE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHY THEY ARE THERE.

JULIETA: CELESTE SAYS THE STATE REPRESENTATIVES WERE ABLE TO GATHER BIPARTISAN SUPPORT BECAUSE THE BILL MAKES SENSE. IT COULD SAVE THE PRISON SYSTEM AS MUCH AS 19 MILLION DOLLARS IN HEALTHCARE COSTS EVERY YEAR – ALL OF THIS IS FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS.

CELESTE TRUSTY:  IT’S LIKE OVER $40 MILLION A YEAR THAT PENNSYLVANIA IS SPENDING ON MEDICAL CARE FOR THESE FOLKS, RIGHT? AND AS A SYSTEM THAT HAS THE THIRD LARGEST IMPACT ON THE COMMONWEALTH’S BUDGET, IT BLOWS MY MIND.

JULIETA: NOW THAT THE BILL HAS PASSED THE PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, IT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN UP BY THE SENATE TO BECOME LAW. HER HOPE IS THAT HB150 WILL PASS AS CURRENTLY WRITTEN – ALLOWING INCARCERATED PEOPLE TO PETITION FOR MEDICAL RELEASE WHEN THEY HAVE ANY MEDICAL CONDITION DEEMED “CHRONIC AND DEBILITATING”. BASICALLY – PEOPLE THAT CAN’T TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES, SHOULDN’T BE IN PRISON. THESE AMENDMENTS WOULD HAVE POTENTIALLY ALLOWED FRANK TO BE RELEASED MUCH SOONER.

IF THE BILL PASSES THE SENATE, THEY ESTIMATE THAT AS MANY AS 700 INCARCERATED PEOPLE COULD IMMEDIATELY BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR COMPASSIONATE RELEASE.

BUT CELESTE SAYS, SIX MONTHS AFTER THE BILL PASSED THE HOUSE, THE PENNSYLVANIA SENATE STILL HAS MADE NO MOVE TO TAKE THIS UP FOR A VOTE.

CELESTE TRUSTY: WE ARE ABSOLUTELY AT A POINT WHERE IF WE DON’T DO SOMETHING SOON, WE CANNOT AFFORD TO CONTINUE IT.  WHEN YOU REMOVE A PERSON FROM SOCIETY DURING INCARCERATION, THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE PUNISHMENT, REMOVAL FROM SOCIETY. THE PUNISHMENT IS, IS NOT, LACK OF MEDICAL CARE.

JULIETA: CELESTE SAYS SHE’S TRYING TO REMAIN HOPEFUL – THE SENATE HAS UNTIL NOVEMBER TO MAKE A MOVE. IF THEY DON’T THE WHOLE PROCESS WOULD NEED TO START OVER AGAIN.

CELESTE TRUSTY IT IS ALWAYS FRUSTRATING WHEN YOU MAKE SUCH A HEADWAY LIKE WE DID WITH HB150 AND THEN THINGS STALL. THE REALITY OF LEGISLATIVE AND POLICY WORK, THOUGH, IS THAT THAT DOES HAPPEN SOMETIMES, RIGHT? BUT WE WILL NOT LET UP.

MARIA: WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK.

[BREAK]

MARIA: WE’RE BACK. SENIOR PRODUCER JULIETA MARTINELLI PICKS UP THE STORY NOW.

JULIETA: WHILE THERE IS HOPE THAT THE POLICY WILL MAKE THINGS MORE HUMANE FOR OTHER ELDERS IN PENNSYLVANIA IN THE COMING YEARS, THE REALITY IS THAT FRANK’S FATE CONTINUES TO REST ON THE CURRENT LAW, AS WRITTEN. BACK IN HIS ROOM, AFTER A FEW HOURS OF TALKING, SUAVE MAKES SOME HEADWAY —

SUAVE: LISTEN TO WHAT I’M SAYING. YEAH. I LOVE YOU-

FRANK: I KNOW IT …

SUAVE: TO DEATH.

FRANK: I KNOW IT.

SUAVE: TILL IT’S APART.

FRANK: I KNOW IT.

SUAVE: I RESPECT YOU.

FRANK: I KNOW IT.

SUAVE: AND I WILL ALWAYS WILL.

FRANK: I KNOW ALL THAT.

SUAVE: RIGHT. DO YOU CARE ABOUT ME?

FRANK: I LOVE YOU. YOU’RE BUM, I WOULD BE-

SUAVE: SAY IT AGAIN.

FRANK: I LOVE YOU. I ALWAYS- I ALWAYS WILL LOVE YOU. YOU MY SON. BUT, BUT, BUT, OKAY. YOU’RE FAMILY

SUAVE: THAT’S RIGHT.

JULIETA: FRANK FINALLY TELLS SUAVE WHAT IS STRESSING HIM SO MUCH. HE SAYS HE CAN’T STAND BEING INSIDE THIS ROOM ALL THE TIME ANYMORE – IT’S NOT MUCH DIFFERENT BEING LOCKED INSIDE THIS BUILDING AS IT WAS BEING IN PRISON. HE WANTS TO VISIT HIS FAMILY. TO FEEL THE BREEZE. TAKING FRANK OUT OF THIS BUILDING IS POSSIBLE – BUT REQUIRES APPROVAL FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS. SO SUAVE MAKES A PROMISE –

SUAVE:  LISTEN TO ME. I NEED YOU TO LOOK AT ME, POP. WE COULD GO OUT, BUT YOU JUST NEED THE TRANSPORTATION, RIGHT? I’M WILLING TO DO THAT, RIGHT? BUT THEY’RE NOT GONNA LET YOU GO UNTIL WE GET TO THIS ISSUE, WHICH IS THEY WANT AN ANKLE MONITOR OR MONITOR , RIGHT? AND THEN I- WE COULD TAKE YOU OUT ANYWHERE YOU WANNA GO.

FRANK: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU DO THAT?

[MUSIC]

JULIETA: IN THE END, FRANK AGREES TO DO HIS BEST TO REMEMBER THAT HE NEEDS TO PUT THE MONITOR BACK ON THE FOLLOWING MONDAY. THEY MAKE PLANS FOR SUAVE TO SPEND THE NIGHT WITH HIM THE SUNDAY PRIOR – HE PROMISES HE WON’T LET HIM FORGET WHY THEY’RE HERE.

[MUSIC]

JULIETA: LATER IN THE AFTERNOON, SUAVE MAKES A LIST OF THE ITEMS THAT FRANK WOULD LIKE FROM THE GROCERY STORE, ACROSS THE STREET. IT’S A GOOD DISTRACTION – TALKING ABOUT HIS FAVORITE SNACKS. BEFORE WE HEAD OUT TO BUY THE ITEMS, WE GUIDE FRANK’S WHEELCHAIR TO THE COMMUNITY ROOM WHERE OTHER PATIENTS ARE EATING LUNCH AND LISTENING TO A VOLUNTEER PLAY MUSIC.

[AMBI]

JULIETA: BUT BEFORE WE GO INTO THE ROOM, FRANK SIGNALS US TO COME CLOSER. HE WANTS TO TELL US SOMETHING –

FRANK: HERE’S THE DEAL I’M 93 YEARS OLD. I RAN INTO AN OLD BROAD.

JULIETA: FRANK SAYS A FEW DAYS AGO IN THAT SAME COMMUNITY ROOM, HE NOTICED A WOMAN… ANOTHER PATIENT.

FRANK: SOMETHING I NEVER IMAGINED. YOU GOT MY ATTENTION NOW.

JULIETA: SHE CAUGHT HIS EYE IMMEDIATELY.

FRANK: I SWEAR, I’M TELLING YOU, UH, SOMETHING I WOULD NEVER IMAGINE I RUN INTO A WOMAN. I’M SITTING, EATING DINNER. I SEE THIS WOMAN COME IN. SHE’S 92 YOUNGER 91. I SAID, “WHOA!”

SUAVE: YOU HAD THE TINGLES?

FRANK: NO, THE ESSENCE, YOU KNOW. SO I TOLD ONE OF THE TWO HELPERS. I SAID, “TELL HER THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HER AND TALK TO HER.” AND SHE SAID, “OKAY.” AH. SO I STARTED TALKING TO HER, AND THIS THING STARTED GROWING AND GROWING. AND I TOLD MY KIDS ABOUT IT.

JULIETA: THEY SAT TOGETHER AND SHARED SOME WORDS. HE SAYS SHE’S A YOUNGER WOMAN – SHE’S 91. HE’S PRETTY SMITTEN – HE SAYS HE’S EVEN TOLD HIS KIDS.

SUAVE: YOU WANT ME TO BRING YOU SOME FLOWERS SO YOU CAN GIVE IT TO HER? NO, BUT I THINK IT WOULD- NOW, YOU KNOW WHAT I- ONE ROSE, FRANK. I’LL BRING YOU A ROSE.

JULIETA: THAT’S ROMANTIC.

SUAVE: I’LL BRING YOU ONE ROSE AS A FRIEND.

JULIETA: SUAVE MESSES WITH FRANK – HE TELLS HIM THAT WOMEN LIKE FLOWERS. HE’S BEEN OUT OF THE GAME TOO LONG. SUAVE IS BEAMING – IT’S THE FIRST TIME THAT WE SEE FRANK SMILING LIKE THIS ON THIS VISIT. HE SEEMS HAPPY.

[MUSIC]

JULIETA: WE RETURN FROM THE GROCERY STORY WITH PACKETS OF TUNA AND OTHER GOODIES – FRANK’S REQUEST. FRANK STILL CRAVES THE SOME OF THE SAME MEALS HE WOULD HAVE IN PRISON, IT’S KIND OF BECOME COMFORT FOOD. SUAVE ALSO COMES BACK WITH A SINGLE RED ROSE, WHICH HE PULLS OUT FROM UNDER HIS COAT.

[MUSIC]

JULIETA: THEY WHISPER AND GIGGLE – THEY LOOK LIKE YOUNG BOYS. FRANK SAYS HE’S SHY. HE TELLS SUAVE HE HASN’T INTERACTED WITH A WOMAN IN DECADES.

FRANK:  DO ME A FAVOR. NO, DO ME A FAVOR. FOR REAL. I KNOW WHAT I’M DOING. YOU GIVE IT TO HER.

JULIETA: FRANK TELLS SUAVE TO GO GIVE HER THE ROSE FOR HIM. HE PASSES IT TO HIM UNDER THE TABLE AS IF IT’S CONTRABAND – HE NODS OVER TO THE WOMAN, SITTING A FEW TABLES OVER EATING LUNCH WITH HER CARETAKER.

FRANK: JUST SAY IT’S FROM HERE. WE– NO. JUST SAY, “WE LOVE YOU,”

JULIETA: SUAVE DOES EXACTLY THAT – HE WALKS OVER, HANDS THE WOMAN THE FLOWER AND POINTS AT FRANK. HE SAYS A FEW WORDS, AND SHE ACCEPTS THE FLOWER. SHE SMILES AND LOOKS DOWN AT HER PLATE. FRANK LOOKS AWAY, HE’S SHEEPISH. EMBARRASSED. I FEEL LIKE I’M STANDING IN A HIGH SCHOOL CAFETERIA. AND I’M WATCHING TWO PEOPLE WITH A NEW CRUSH.

FRANK: ACTUALLY GET OUT OF HERE.

SUAVE: YES, RIGHT THERE [LAUGHING]

FRANK: OH, OKAY. ALL RIGHT, I’LL SEE YOU THEN.

JULIETA: I’LL SEE YOU VERY SOON…

FRANK: I KNOW, I KNOW.

JULIETA: THIS TIME, FRANK DOESN’T BEG SUAVE TO STAY WITH HIM. HE SHOOS US OFF. IT’S LIKE HE’S EMBARRASSED OF US IN FRONT OF HIS FRIENDS. BY NOW, WE KNOW THAT THE GOOD MOMENTS DON’T LAST. BUT MAYBE…NEITHER DO THE BAD ONES. THAT’S THE CRUELTY AND GIFT OF DEMENTIA. AND IT SEEMS THAT TODAY, FRANK HAS SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

[MUSIC]

JULIETA: THE FOLLOWING SUNDAY, SUAVE FULFILLED HIS PROMISE. HE SLEPT OVER AND WHEN THE LIEUTENANT FROM THE D.O.C. SHOWED UP, FRANK REMEMBERED WHY HE WAS THERE. HE ALLOWED HIM TO PUT THE MONITOR ON. AND FOR NOW…THE REQUEST TO RETURN HIM TO PRISON WAS CLOSED.

[MUSIC]

JULIETA: BUT SUAVE, FRANK’S FAMILY, AND HIS LAWYERS STILL LIVE WITH THAT FEAR – THAT THE MONITOR WILL ONCE AGAIN CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE D.O.C. TO DEMAND HIS RETURN TO PRISON. FOR NOW, THOUGH, FRANK SEEMS TO HAVE FOUND SOMETHING TO LIVE FOR IN THE IMMEDIATE. HE IS STILL TALKING TO HIS LADY FRIEND. HE SAYS HE FINALLY FEELS INSPIRED TO WRITE A ROMANTIC STORY –  LIKE THE NOTEBOOK HE SAYS, BUT ONE THAT DOESN’T END IN LONELINESS.

[CREDITS]

MARIA: THIS EPISODE WAS PRODUCED BY JULIETA MARTINELLI. IT WAS EDITED BY MARLON BISHOP.

IT WAS MIXED BY STEPHANIE LEBOW. SCORING AND SOUND DESIGN BY JACOB ROSATI. FACT CHECKING FOR THIS EPISODE BY ROXANA AGUIRRE.

FERNANDA ECHAVARRI IS OUR MANAGING EDITOR. NANCY TRUJILLO IS OUR PRODUCTION MANAGER.

THE LATINO USA TEAM ALSO INCLUDES JULIA CARUSO, REYNALDO LEAÑOS JR., LUIS LUNA, GLORIMAR MARQUEZ, ADREANNA RODRIGUEZ, AND NICOLE ROTHWELL

PENILEY RAMIREZ AND I ARE EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS

I’M YOUR HOST MARIA HINOJOSA.

“LATINO USA IS PART OF I-HEART’S MY CULTURA PODCAST NETWORK. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS AT IHEART ARE LEO GOMEZ AND ARLENE SANTANA.

JOIN US AGAIN ON OUR NEXT EPISODE AND IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN FIND US ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND DON’T FORGET TO JOIN FUTURO+ TO LISTEN AD-FREE AND GET BONUS EPISODES AND SPECIAL VIRTUAL EVENTS. BY JOINING, YOU’LL SUPPORT THE KIND OF REPORTING THAT MAKES EPISODES LIKE THIS ONE POSSIBLE! SO THANK YOU!

CIAO!

If you are interested in this topic, check out the podcast series Dying on the Inside: Women Lifers at Muncy Prison. At Pennsylvania’s State Correctional Institution Muncy, roughly 150 women serving life sentences, many incarcerated during the height of mass incarceration in the 1980s and 1990s, are now aging behind bars. Across the country, incarcerated women are experiencing accelerated aging, with chronic illnesses often appearing by age 35 and infirmary visits skyrocketing. Prisons like SCI Muncy are ill-equipped to meet the complex needs of aging women, as poor nutrition, limited exercise, and inadequate healthcare have contributed to a growing but largely overlooked public health crisis.

Back to Top