Podcast: Dirty DEA. Episode 5, USA v. García Luna

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Published on: January 6, 2023

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VOICE: PREVIOUSLY ON “USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA”

PENILEY: I FOUND THAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GARCÍA LUNA AND SAMUEL WEINBERG, HIS WIFE AND HIS SON, WENT BACK FOR DECADES, AND IT INVOLVED A LOT OF MONEY.

MARIA: YOUR INVESTIGATION FINDS THAT A RESTAURANT THAT GARCÍA LUNA’S WIFE, CHRISTINA PEREYRA, OWNED, ACTUALLY HAD THIS WEIRD THING IN COMMON WITH A PRIVATE SECURITY COMPANY.

PENILEY: AND GARCÍA LUNA HAS NOT RESPONDED TO THE ALLEGATIONS IN MIAMI YET. AND IT IS KEY THAT HE RESPONDS, MARIA, BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS VERSION.

PENILEY: MARIA, I WANT TO START THIS FINAL EPISODE WITH A QUOTE FROM A SPANISH JOURNALIST THAT I USE TO OPEN THE BOOK I WROTE ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA. THE PHRASE IS IN SPANISH AND IT SAYS: “NO SE PUEDE OLVIDAR LO QUE TODAVÍA NO HA TERMINADO.”

MARIA: I KIND OF LOVE THIS. IT MEANS YOU CAN’T FORGET WHAT HAS NOT YET ENDED.

PENILEY: YES. AND I BRING IT UP BECAUSE EVEN IF THIS IS THE LAST EPISODE OF OUR SERIES, THIS STORY IS NOT DONE YET. THE TRIAL OF GARCÍA LUNA IS SCHEDULED TO START A FEW WEEKS FROM THE MOMENT WE ARE RECORDING THIS FINAL EPISODE.

MARIA: RIGHT. AND WE WILL BE FOLLOWING AND COVERING THAT TRIAL. YOU CAN BE SURE OF THAT.

PENILEY: AND WE HAVE PROMISED TO OUR LISTENERS THAT WE WILL TELL THEM, YOU LISTENER, A STORY THAT ALMOST NO ONE ELSE IN THE U.S. MEDIA IS GOING TO TELL YOU. AND THAT’S BECAUSE, AS WE HAVE BEEN SAYING, GARCÍA LUNA IS JUST ONE PLAYER IN A LARGE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM, AND WE NEED TO SHED LIGHT ON THAT SYSTEM. THERE ARE THREADS IN THIS STORY THAT WE CAN’T IGNORE, LIKE THE ROLE OF THE U.S. AND MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE ROLE OF THE DEA.

MARIA:  AND THAT WAS A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS PODCAST, BECAUSE, YES, I WAS FASCINATED WITH WHAT WE HAVE UNCOVERED, NOT ONLY ABOUT ALLEGED CORRUPTION IN MEXICO, BUT WHAT I’M ALSO REALLY OBSESSED ABOUT IS THE POSSIBLE CORRUPTION IN THE UNITED STATES AND SPECIFICALLY CORRUPTION WITHIN THE DEA, WHICH ON THIS SIDE OF THE BORDER – IN THE UNITED STATES – IS CHARGED WITH LEADING THIS SO-CALLED WAR ON DRUGS.

MARIA: SO, MY DEAR LISTENER, GET READY. THIS IS EPISODE FIVE — OUR FINAL EPISODE — OF USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA.

[THEME MUSIC]

PENILEY: MARÍA, LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN 2010. SO, MORE THAN A DECADE AGO.

ONE NIGHT, AT LEAST 20 GUNMEN ENTERED A PARTY IN MEXICO … WHERE A GROUP OF TEENAGERS WERE CELEBRATING A BIRTHDAY.

MARIA: OH, MY GOD, I KNOW THIS STORY. SO THIS IS JUAREZ, RIGHT?

PENILEY: YEAH. RIGHT ACROSS THE BORDER FROM EL PASO.  THE GUNMEN KILLED 15 OF THOSE TEENAGERS IN THE PARTY. AND THE NEIGHBORS SAID THAT THEY CALLED THE POLICE BUT THAT THE OFFICERS DIDN’T ARRIVE UNTIL AFTER THE GUNMEN LEFT THE SCENE.

MARIA: ON THIS SIDE OF THE BORDER, IN THE UNITED STATES, IT WAS YET ANOTHER HORROR STORY OF “VIOLENCE IN MEXICO,” HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. BUT IN THE COVERAGE  THERE WAS THIS WHOLE UNDERCURRENT OF, YOU KNOW, “THEY GOT MIXED UP WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE.”  AND, I MEAN, THAT’S AT LEAST THE WAY I REMEMBER IT.

PENILEY: YES. FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT FELIPE CALDERÓN ACTUALLY SAID THAT IF THEY WERE KILLED, IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE UP TO SOMETHING. HE SAID THAT JUST HOURS AFTER THE MASSACRE. AND AFTER THAT STATEMENT, THERE WAS PUBLIC OUTRAGE. IT WAS A HUGE SCANDAL, MARIA. MOST OF THE KIDS KILLED AT THE PARTY WERE STUDENTS.

SO, A MONTH AFTER THE MASSACRE, AND BECAUSE OF THE SCANDAL, CALDERÓN WENT TO JUAREZ TO TRY TO CALM THINGS DOWN. HE WAS IN AN OFFICIAL EVENT DURING THIS VISIT. AND, THERE, LUZ MARIA DÁVILA, A MOTHER WHO HAS LOST HER ONLY TWO SONS IN THE SHOOTING, SHE CONFRONTED CALDERÓN.

AND I WANT TO SHOW YOU THE VIDEO OF THAT MOMENT.

LUZ MARÍA DÁVILA: “YO NO LE PUEDO DECIR BIENVENIDO PORQUE PARA MI NO LO ES. YO QUIERO QUE SE HAGA JUSTICIA NO NADA MÁS PARA MIS DOS NIÑAS SINO PARA TODOS LOS DEMÁS NIÑOS. QUIERO QUE USTED SE RETRACTE DE LO QUE DIJO, QUE ERA UN PANDILLERO, MENTIRA…

MARIA: FELIPE CALDERÓN, THE PRESIDENT, IS BASICALLY JUST SITTING THERE AND KIND OF NOT REACTING AT ALL WHILE THIS WOMAN IS POURING HER HEART OUT.

MARIA: SHE SAYS TO THE PRESIDENT, YOU’RE NOT WELCOME HERE. YOU HAVE MADE NO ATTEMPT FOR JUSTICE FOR MY ONLY TWO SONS. AND WHAT HAPPENED HERE IS NOT JUST ABOUT MY KIDS. IT’S ABOUT ALL THE KIDS. AND I WANT YOU, MR. PRESIDENT, TO TAKE BACK WHAT YOU SAID. THEY ARE NOT GANG MEMBERS. THEY WERE HARDWORKING STUDENTS.

PENILEY: AND ANOTHER IMPORTANT THING THAT SHE SAYS IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT ALWAYS TOLD THEM – THE FAMILIES – THAT, THERE WAS NO MONEY FOR THE INVESTIGATION AND NO MONEY TO LOOK WHO WAS KILLING THESE KIDS.

AND WE HAVE BEEN REPORTING THIS: THERE WAS A LOT OF MONEY, AND THE MONEY WAS SPENT JUST ON OTHER THINGS, LIKE A TV SERIES, OR EVEN IN THIS – YOU REMEMBER THIS  – HIGH-LEVEL SECURITY EQUIPMENT THAT THEN WAS REPORTED LIKE “LOST” BUT NEVER APPEARED. SO THERE WAS MONEY.

MARIA: THERE WAS A LOT OF MONEY GOING AROUND.

PENILEY: BUT LET’S GO BACK TO THE VIDEO AGAIN. I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING OF THAT MOMENT WHEN LUZ MARIA IS CONFRONTING CALDERÓN THAT YOU MISSED THE FIRST TIME.

MARIA: OH, MY GOD. OK, SO THERE’S FELIPE CALDERÓN, THE PRESIDENT. THERE’S THE FIRST LADY, HIS WIFE. AND RIGHT NEXT TO HER IS GARCÍA LUNA, OUR GUY, SITTING THERE WHILE THIS WOMAN IS POURING HER GUTS OUT – IN FRONT OF THE PRESIDENT – SAYING, “HOW CAN YOU JUST BE SITTING THERE WHILE MY TWO SONS HAVE BEEN MURDERED?”

PENILEY: AND IF YOU SEE GARCÍA LUNA, HE DOESN’T REACT AT ALL.

MARIA: HE’S STONE FACED. HE’S COMPLETELY EMOTIONLESS. HE DOESN’T EVEN MOVE HIS HANDS.

PENILEY: AND HE WAS THERE BECAUSE AS SECRETARY OF PUBLIC SECURITY, GARCÍA LUNA WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OVERSEEING THIS SO-CALLED WAR ON DRUGS. BUT IN FACT, DURING HIS TIME IN OFFICE, MEXICO TURNED INTO ONE OF THE MOST VIOLENT PLACES ON EARTH.

MARIA: AND, BY THE WAY, NOT JUST STATISTICALLY, YOU KNOW. FORGET ABOUT THE NUMBERS. YOU HAVE A REAL PERSON, A MOM, TELLING YOU FACE-TO-FACE: MY TEENAGE SONS AND HIS FRIENDS WERE KILLED, AT A BIRTHDAY PARTY. AND YOU, MR. PRESIDENT, YOU SECRETARY OF SECURITY, GARCÍA LUNA, YOU FAILED US.

PENILEY: AND YOU KNOW, MARIA, THE WORST PART IS THAT GARCÍA LUNA HAS BEEN LONG GONE FROM MEXICO, TWO MORE ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE TAKEN OFFICE IN THE COUNTRY SINCE CALDERON, BUT THE ILLS OF THIS WAR ON DRUGS PERSIST. MOTHERS LIKE LUZ MARIA ARE STILL SUFFERING AND THEY ARE STILL WAITING FOR JUSTICE.

MARIA: AND, IN THE U.S., OTHER WOMEN ARE ALSO SUFFERING THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS FAILED WAR ON DRUGS.

LUPE SALAZAR: I DID NOT REALIZE THE IMPACT OF THE OPIOIDS UNTIL MY SON BECAME AN ADDICT IN OUR LOCAL JAIL. AND THAT’S WHAT ROCKED MY WORLD.

MARIA: THIS IS THE VOICE OF LUPE SALAZAR. IN 2016, SHE FOUNDED BARRIOS UNIDOS. THE IDEA WAS TO HELP FAMILIES AFFECTED BY ADDICTION IN CHIMAYÓ, NEW MEXICO.

PENILEY: AND IN CHIMAYÓ, AS WE SAW IN MEXICO IN OUR PREVIOUS EPISODE. IT WAS THE MOTHERS WHO HAVE COME TOGETHER TO HELP THEIR COMMUNITY.

MARIA: YOU KNOW, AND THEY’VE HAD TO DO THAT WITH BASICALLY NOTHING, JUST THEIR OWN RESOURCES AND NO SUPPORT FROM THE GOVERNMENT, OBVIOUSLY.

PENILEY: WE INTERVIEWED LUPE SALAZAR FOR THIS SERIES, AND THIS IS WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA.

LUPE SALAZAR: IF THEY WANT TO DANCE WITH THE DEVIL, THEN THEY NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE BECAUSE WE ARE IN A CRISIS. SHAME ON HIM FOR THINKING HE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT.

PENILEY: AND WHEN WE TOLD LUPE ABOUT THESE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST GARCÍA LUNA – YOU KNOW THAT HE’S SUPPOSED TO BE THIS GOOD COP TRUSTED BY THE DEA – LUPE ACTUALLY REMEMBERED SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO.

LUPE SALAZAR: IN 1999, THE DEA CAME IN AND THEY TOOK DOWN ALL THESE, LIKE LOCAL DRUG DEALERS HERE IN CHIMAYÓ.

PENILEY: SO WE DID SOME RESEARCH AFTER INTERVIEWING LUPE. AND WHAT SHE REMEMBERS IS ONE OF THE RAIDS THAT THE DEA CONDUCTED AS PART OF AN OPERATION CALLED “TAR PIT.” ON THAT DAY IN SEPTEMBER 1999, HELICOPTERS CIRCLED CHIMAYÓ AND 150 OFFICERS WITH GUNS AND SWAT GEAR BROKE DOWN DOORS, ENTERED HOMES, AND ARRESTED 34 PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY SUSPECTED OF DISTRIBUTING HEROIN AND COCAINE. AT THAT TIME, THE TOWN OF CHIMAYÓ HAD JUST 3,000 RESIDENTS. SO ALMOST EVERY FAMILY WAS AFFECTED BY THE ARRESTS.

LUPE SALAZAR: YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN’T HAVE A PLAN AS TO WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CHILDREN. YOU KNOW, THE CHILDREN WERE JUST LIKE SCATTERED ABOUT.

PENILEY: THE GOVERNMENT DECLARED THE OPERATION A SUCCESS, OF COURSE. BUT LUPE SEES IT VERY DIFFERENTLY.

LUPE SALAZAR: WHAT WAS THE PLAN? FOR US TO GET RID OF THE LOCAL, TO BRING IN OTHERS? BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED. I BELIEVE THAT THEY FELT THAT THEIR JOB WAS DONE, AND THEN THEY LEFT. AND WHAT CAME IN WAS WORSE.

MARIA: LUPE IS RIGHT. WE KNOW NOW THAT THE FLOW OF DRUGS INTO CHIMAYÓ AND EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE UNITED STATES HASN’T STOPPED AND NEITHER HAVE THE DEATHS. SO THE QUESTION THAT LUPE ASKS IS ACTUALLY CENTRAL, RIGHT? SO WHAT WAS THE DEA’S PLAN? I MEAN, WHAT IN FACT, HAVE THEY ACCOMPLISHED?

PENILEY: RIGHT, AND THE DEA IS A MASSIVE INSTITUTION. IT HAS OVER 4,000 SPECIAL AGENTS, AND THEY HAVE A YEARLY BUDGET OF OVER $3.2 BILLION. SO SOMETHING WE HAVE BEEN HIGHLIGHTING IN THIS SERIES IS THE ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY THE U.S. HAS SENT TO MEXICO TO FIGHT DRUGS. BUT THE MONEY THE DEA USES TO OPERATE IN ONE SINGLE YEAR IS ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT THE U.S. HAS SPENT IN THE WAR ON DRUGS IN MEXICO DURING 14 YEARS.

MARIA: WHOA.

PENILEY: SO THE DEA OPERATES ON U.S. SOIL, AS IT DID IN CHIMAYÓ, BUT ALSO HAS OPERATIONS IN OTHER COUNTRIES. AND SOMETHING WE HAVE BEEN REPEATING AND UNDERSCORING IN THIS PODCAST IS THAT GARCÍA LUNA HAD THE TRUST OF THE DEA.

MARIA: RIGHT, THE TRUST OF U.S. AGENCIES, SOMETHING THAT EVEN THE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO MENTIONED WHEN HE WAS EXPLAINING WHY HE ALSO TRUSTED GARCÍA LUNA 

PENILEY: AT THIS POINT, WE SHOULD ASK OURSELVES, WAS GARCÍA LUNA — WHO IS NOW FACING THESE ACCUSATIONS — A KIND OF MASTERMIND, DOUBLE AGENT? WAS HE CAPABLE OF TAKING MILLIONAIRE BRIBES FROM THE DRUG CARTELS? AND AT THE SAME TIME, WAS HE FOOLING ONE OF THE BIGGEST GOVERNMENT AGENCIES IN ONE OF THE RICHEST COUNTRIES ON EARTH? REALLY? OR THE REAL PROBLEM IS A FLAWED SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE LIKE GARCÍA LUNA TO EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE.

MARIA: RIGHT. BECAUSE REMEMBER, GARCÍA LUNA IS THE HIGHEST RANKING MEXICAN GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY TO FACE TRIAL IN THE U.S. FOR ALLEGEDLY COOPERATING WITH DRUG CARTELS WHILE – DOT, DOT, DOT – WHILE WORKING WITH THE DEA. SO, YEAH, IT’S A BIG DEAL, BUT HE’S NOT THE FIRST PERSON TO FACE SIMILAR CHARGES, AND I DOUBT HE’S GOING TO BE THE LAST ONE. RIGHT? THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE SAYING, PENILEY: THAT THERE’S A STRUCTURAL ISSUE HERE.

PENILEY: SO, AS WE KNOW, DRUG TRAFFICKING IS AN INTERNATIONAL OPERATION SO THAT PRESENTS SOME LIMITATIONS TO THE DEA, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, BECAUSE THEY TRY TO PREVENT DRUGS FROM COMING INTO THE U.S., BUT THEY NEED TO WORK ALSO WITH OTHER COUNTRIES. BUT THOSE COUNTRIES HAVE THEIR OWN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. AND THE DEA CAN’T JUST GO THERE AND DO THEIR WORK THERE AS THEY WOULD DO IT IN THE U.S.

SO THE DEA SAYS, “WE CAN’T TRUST THESE LOCAL POLICE OFFICERS ABROAD BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW IF THEY’RE CORRUPT.” SO IN 1997, THEY CREATED A SUPER SPECIALIZED, SENSITIVE INVESTIGATIVE UNITS WITH LOCAL OFFICERS THAT THE DEA WAS SELECTING, VETTING AND TRAINING.

MARIA: OKAY. SO BASICALLY, THEY’RE TRYING TO TURN LOCAL POLICE OFFICERS INTO AGENTS – FOR THEM – THAT THEY CAN TRUST IN ORDER TO FIGHT THE WAR ON DRUGS .

PENILEY: RIGHT. THEY’RE NOT FORMALLY PART OF THE DEA, BUT THE DEA SPENDS MONEY ON THEM, YOU KNOW, U.S. TAXPAYERS MONEY, AGAIN, BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY BRING THEM TO A DEA FACILITY IN QUANTICO, VIRGINIA, TO TRAIN FOR FIVE WEEKS. SO VETTING AGENTS AND PUTTING THEM THROUGH THESE TRAININGS, THE DEA CAN WORK WITH OFFICERS BECAUSE NOW THEY SAY THEY CAN TRUST THEM WITH THIS SENSITIVE INFORMATION.

MARIA: OKAY. SO BASICALLY, THEY’RE LIKE, WE LIKE THESE GUYS. WE’LL WORK WITH THESE GUYS, THESE SPECIAL GUYS.

PENILEY: YEAH, BUT THE THING IS THAT EVEN THOUGH THE DEA SAYS THAT THEY CREATED THIS UNIT — SO THEIR INTELLIGENCE WILL NOT BE COMPROMISED — THAT ISN’T ALWAYS THE CASE. AND WE WILL SEE RIGHT NOW HOW ALL OF THIS STORY IS RELATED TO GARCIA LUNA.

[MIDROLL]

PENILEY:  SO LET’S GO BACK TO MEXICO.

MARIA: OKAY. WE’RE BACK IN MEXICO. AND IT’S THE YEAR 2008, RIGHT?

PENILEY: YES. SO NOW WE ARE GOING TO MEET A NEW PERSON. IVAN REYES ARZATE WAS THEN A FEDERAL POLICE OFFICER UNDER GARCÍA LUNA’S LEAD. HE WAS APPOINTED COMMANDER FOR ONE OF THESE SENSITIVE INVESTIGATIVE UNITS FROM THE DEA IN MEXICO. HE CAME TO TRAIN WITH THE DEA IN QUANTICO, VIRGINIA, AND THEN HE STARTED WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE AGENCY. AND, OF COURSE, HE STARTED RECEIVING SENSITIVE INFORMATION IN THE SENSITIVE INVESTIGATIVE UNIT.

MARIA: MM HMM. IT BEGINS TO SOUND INTRIGUING NOW. OKAY.

PENILEY: BUT SEVERAL YEARS LATER, MARIA, REYES ARZATE WAS ACCUSED OF LEAKING SENSITIVE INFORMATION TO DRUG CARTELS

MARIA: OKAY. SO THEY’RE LIKE, YOU’RE OUR TRUSTED GUY, BUT THAT SAME TRUSTED GUY BECOMES AN INFORMANT TO THE CARTELS.

PENILEY: AND ALSO, HE WAS LEAKING INFORMATION OF AN INFORMANT. THAT MEANS THAT HE WAS PUTTING THIS INFORMANT, OF COURSE, IN A GREAT DANGER. SO IN APRIL OF 2017, REYES ARZATE FLEW TO CHICAGO AND SURRENDERED HIMSELF TO THE U.S. AUTHORITIES.

MARIA: THAT’S WEIRD. OKAY. I’M INTRIGUED BY NOW.

PENILEY: AND ONCE IN THE U.S., HE WAS ALSO CHARGED WITH ACCEPTING ALMOST $300,000 IN BRIBES FROM ANOTHER GROUP ASSOCIATED ALSO WITH THE SINALOA CARTEL. THAT OTHER BRIBES WAS FOR HELPING THEM TO SMUGGLE COCAINE INTO THE U.S. SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME CARTEL THAT GARCÍA LUNA IS NOW ACCUSED OF HELPING, EL CHAPO’S CARTEL.

MARIA: LET ME JUST GET THIS STRAIGHT. SO THE GUY GIVES HIMSELF OVER TO U.S. AUTHORITIES, AND IT’S AT THAT TIME WHEN IT’S LIKE, AHA! YEAH. ALSO, YOU’VE BEEN TAKING BRIBES FROM THE SINALOA CARTEL AND YOU WERE BASICALLY HELPING THEM SMUGGLE COCAINE INTO THE UNITED STATES. AND THIS WAS, AGAIN, ONE OF THE TRUSTED GUYS FOR THE DEA, THE SPECIAL TRAINED GUYS.

PENILEY: SO REYES ARZATE PLED GUILTY TO THAT CHARGE, AND THEN IN 2022, HE WAS SENTENCED TO TEN YEARS IN PRISON.

MARIA: NOW, TEN YEARS. I DON’T… I DON’T KNOW. THAT DOESN’T SEEM LIKE A LOT OF TIME. HE WASN’T JUST SOME GUY COLLABORATING WITH THE DEA. HE WAS THEIR GUY.

PENILEY: I THOUGHT EXACTLY THE SAME.

SO FOR THIS SERIES, WE INTERVIEWED KEEGAN HAMILTON. HE’S A CORRESPONDENT AT VICE NEWS. AND HE COVERED THE EL CHAPO TRIAL AND ACTUALLY HE DID A PODCAST ABOUT IT. AND NOW HE IS GETTING READY TO COVER GARCÍA LUNA’S TRIAL. SO, LET’S LISTEN TO HIM:

KEEGAN: IVAN REYES ARZATE, WHO WAS THE FORMER HEAD OF THE SIU. HE’S BEEN THROUGH SOME LEGAL PROCEEDINGS IN THE UNITED STATES AND IS STILL IN CUSTODY AND COULD VERY LIKELY BE A WITNESS WHO OFFERS SORT OF FIRST HAND TESTIMONY OF LIKE, “I KNOW THIS GUY WAS CORRUPT BECAUSE I WAS WORKING FOR HIM AND DOING CORRUPT THINGS ON HIS BEHALF.”

MARIA: I MEAN, IT JUST GETS MORE TELENOVELA EVERY TIME, BECAUSE REYES ARZATE NOW HAS ADMITTED THAT HE WAS WORKING WITH THE CARTELS. AGAIN, HE WAS TRAINED BY THE DEA, BUT IN THIS CASE, HE COULD POTENTIALLY TESTIFY ABOUT WHATEVER HE KNOWS ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA AND ESSENTIALLY, IN BROADER STROKES, THE DEA AND CORRUPTION. AM I GETTING WARM HERE?

PENILEY: WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE TRIAL. BUT ACTUALLY, AN INVESTIGATION FROM PROPUBLICA FOUND THAT THE TWO FORMER COMMANDERS OF THESE SENSITIVE INVESTIGATIVE UNITS IN MEXICO – SO BEFORE REYES ARZATE – WERE KILLED ON THE JOB. ONE OF THEM WAS KILLED IN 2007, AGAIN, WHILE GARCÍA LUNA WAS IN OFFICE. SO THIS OFFICER ALERTED THE DEA THAT THE CARTELS WERE OFFERING HIM HUGE SUMS OF MONEY IN BRIBES. HE TOLD THE DEA THAT HE WAS AFRAID THAT HE COULD BE KILLED IF HE DIDN’T ACCEPT THE MONEY. AND THEN THE NEXT DAY HE WAS MURDERED.

MARIA: SO TWO OFFICERS BASICALLY IN THE SAME POSITION BEFORE REYES ARZATE, THEY END UP DEAD AND AT LEAST ONE OF THEM WAS KILLED AFTER SAYING THAT HE WOULDN’T TAKE BRIBES FROM THE CARTELS. SO IT KIND OF DOES MAKE YOU WONDER ABOUT WHAT THE DEA DID ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

PENILEY: I THINK WE CAN SAY THAT THE DEA DID KNOW THAT THE DRUG CARTELS WERE ACTIVELY TRYING TO BRIBE THE COMMANDERS OF THESE UNITS. AND THESE ARE AGAIN THE DEA’S SORT OF UNITS IN OTHER COUNTRIES ABROAD. AND WE KNOW THAT WHEN IT WAS REYES ARZATE’S TURN, HE DID TAKE THE MONEY THAT HE WAS OFFERED. AND REALLY, THESE UNITS HAVE HAD SCANDALS NOT JUST IN MEXICO, BUT ALSO IN HONDURAS, IN COLOMBIA AND IN HAITI.

MARIA: OKAY. THOSE ARE THREE VERY IMPORTANT COUNTRIES WHEN YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT THE DRUG TRAFFIC MOVEMENT FROM SOUTH TO NORTH.

PENILEY: SO IT’S NOT JUST ABOUT MEXICAN POLITICS. IN MEXICO, THE SENSITIVE INVESTIGATIVE UNITS WERE DISBANDED IN 2021 BY THE CURRENT MEXICAN GOVERNMENT, AND THEY SAID IT WAS BECAUSE INTERNAL CORRUPTION IN THOSE UNITS.

MARIA: OKAY WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE CORRUPTION OF OFFICERS, JUST LIKE IVAN REYES ARZATE. THE REALITY THAT DEA-TRAINED – AND CHOSEN AND VETTED – AGENTS WERE GETTING PAID OFF BY THE CARTELS, BY THE NARCOS.

PENILEY: WHETHER THE DEA AGENTS ARE PART OF THAT CORRUPTION, WE CAN’T SAY FOR SURE, MARÍA.

BUT LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT ANOTHER CASE, IN ANOTHER COUNTRY WHERE CORRUPTION BY DEA AGENTS WAS DENOUNCED.

MARIA: ALL RIGHT, SO WHAT? WHAT’S THE COUNTRY? WHAT’S THE CASE?

PENILEY: IN 2014, SPECIAL DEA AGENT KEITH MCNICHOLS WAS ASSIGNED TO WORK IN HAITI. MCNICHOLS HAD BEEN WORKING AT THE DEA SINCE 1998, AND THIS IS HIM IN THE INTERVIEW HE GAVE US FOR THIS SERIES.

KEITH MCNICHOLS I SPENT FIVE-AND-A-HALF MONTHS AT THE DEA TRAINING ACADEMY IN QUANTICO, VIRGINIA.

PENILEY: HE GRADUATED AND STARTED WORKING IN NEW JERSEY. AND FROM THERE, HE WENT OVERSEAS TO JAMAICA. MCNICHOLS TOLD US THAT HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LARGEST MONEY SEIZURE IN THE ISLAND AT THE TIME. SO HE RECEIVES A PROMOTION AND EVENTUALLY, HE WAS REASSIGNED TO HAITI. BUT FROM THE MOMENT HE ARRIVED ON THE GROUND IN HAITI, HE SAW THINGS THAT ACTUALLY SHOCKED HIM.

KEITH MCNICHOLS: I NOTICED THAT THERE WERE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PAYMENTS TO THE INFORMANTS IN THAT PARTICULAR OFFICE. I MEAN, HUGE AMOUNT OF DOLLARS, WHICH KIND OF LIKE WERE RED FLAGS, AND THERE WAS NO JUSTIFICATION. THEY WERE JUST MAKING PAYMENTS. $25,000. $30,000.

MARIA: WHOA. I’M JUST THINKING ABOUT PAYING PEOPLE $25,000 OR $30,000 IN HAITI. YEAH, THIS WOULD DEFINITELY DRAW ATTENTION.

PENILEY: YES. AND MCNICHOLS SAYS THAT THERE WERE ALSO A LOT OF EXPENSES THAT THE AGENTS AT THE OFFICE WERE SUBMITTING WITH NO RECEIPTS, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE CAR REPAIRS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

KEITH MCNICHOLS: THERE WAS A LOT OF KICKBACK GOING ON IN THAT PARTICULAR OFFICE.

MARIA: OKAY. SO THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

PENILEY: SO MCNICHOLS REPORTED THIS TO HIS SUPERIORS. BUT HE SAID THAT HE WAS DISMISSED. AND HE WAS TOLD TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY. AND YOU KNOW, HE DIDN’T. MCNICHOLS PUSHED AND HE BROUGHT THESE ACCUSATIONS TO THE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY, OR THE OPR. THIS IS A SECTION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, AND IT WAS CREATED AFTER WATERGATE TO INVESTIGATE ANY ACCUSATIONS OF MISCONDUCT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EMPLOYEES. AND THE DEA, AS YOU KNOW MARIA, IS PART OF THE DOJ.

MARIA: PENILEY, IF YOU REMEMBER FROM EPISODE ONE, I BECOME FASCINATED WITH CORRUPTION IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE OF WATERGATE.

JUST THE CIRCLE TOO STRANGE. OKAY, GO AHEAD.

PENILEY: AND IT GETS BETTER. WELL, WORSE.

MCNICHOLS CAME TO THE U.S. AND HE TALKED WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ABOUT WHAT HE WITNESSED IN HAITI.

KEITH MCNICHOLS: SO I FIGURED THESE GUYS WOULD SIT DOWN AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAD TO SAY, BUT THAT WAS THE WORST THING POSSIBLE. THEY BASICALLY INTERVIEWED ME FOR APPROXIMATELY FOUR HOURS. THEY SAID I WAS LYING AND I WOULD BE BROUGHT UP ON CHARGES. WHEN I LEFT, I COULDN’T BELIEVE IT. I WAS LIKE, “WOW, I’M HERE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING AS A DEA AGENT FROM THE ACADEMY. THEY SAY, ‘HEY, IF YOU SEE ANY WRONGDOING, REPORT IT.’” AND HERE I AM, COMING FORWARD AND REPORTING THE WRONGDOING AND THE SAME PEOPLE IN OPR TURNAROUND AND THEY MAKE A CASE AGAINST ME AND DISCARDED EVERYTHING THAT I SAID.

MARIA: THIS IS KIND OF SCARY. AND YOU CAN REALLY HEAR IT IN THIS GUY’S VOICE, RIGHT? I MEAN, MCNICHOLS COMES FORWARD, DENOUNCES THE CORRUPTION HE’S SEEN IN HAITI. AND THEN, I MEAN, IT’S LIKE OUT OF A HORROR MOVIE. HE TURNS OUT BEING ACCUSED HIMSELF. BUT IN SOME WAYS, IT KIND OF SOUNDS FAMILIAR BECAUSE WE HEARD EARLIER IN OUR SERIES SEVERAL OF THE PEOPLE WHO ACCUSE GARCÍA LUNA OF CORRUPTION AND WORKING WITH THE CARTELS ENDED UP IN JAIL, IN PRISON, ACCUSED OF DOING THE SAME THINGS THAT THEY WERE DENOUNCING.

PENILEY: WELL, MCNICHOLS DIDN’T END UP IN PRISON, BUT THEY DID OPEN AN INVESTIGATION AGAINST HIM. BUT EVEN THOUGH HE WAS DENOUNCING THE DEA, HE REMAINED WORKING AS AN AGENT FOR THE AGENCY IN HAITI. HE WAS IN A COMPLICATED POSITION, YOU KNOW, PUSHING FOR AN INVESTIGATION FROM THE INSIDE. AND THEN IN APRIL OF 2015, A PARTICULAR INCIDENT MADE THINGS EVEN WORSE.

MARIA: A PARTICULAR INCIDENT. ALL RIGHT. WHAT HAPPENS?

PENILEY: A SHIP FROM PANAMA CALLED THE MANZANARES ARRIVED IN HAITI. IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY CARRYING SUGAR.

KEITH MCNICHOLS: ON THIS PARTICULAR DAY, STEVEDORES WERE UNLOADING THE SUGAR. THEY HAD OPENED UP ONE OF THE BUNDLES, THE PACKAGES WITH THE DOPE, AND THEY NOTICED IT WAS EITHER HEROIN OR COCAINE.

MARIA: IT SOUNDS LIKE HE’S BASICALLY SAYING LIKE THE DRUGS LITERALLY STARTED SPILLING RIGHT ONTO THE DOCK.

PENILEY: YES, IT WAS A CHAOS. MCNICHOLS WAS THE OFFICER ON CALL, SO HE WENT TO DEAL WITH THE EMERGENCY. BUT WHEN HE ARRIVED, WITNESSES TOLD HIM THAT MEN IN POLICE UNIFORMS AND IN PRESIDENTIAL OFFICE GEAR HAD GRABBED THE BOX WITH THE DRUGS, PUT THEM IN CARS AND SPED AWAY.

MARIA: I MEAN, THIS IS LIKE, YEAH, IT’S LIKE A MOVIE.

PENILEY: SO MCNICHOLS, WE KNOW HIM BY NOW, HE, OF COURSE, STARTED AN INVESTIGATION. HE WAS TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THIS MANZANARES SHIPMENT. SO WHERE DID THE DRUGS GO? WHO WAS INVOLVED WITH THE SMUGGLING? BUT IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ANYWHERE.

KEITH MCNICHOLS: I WAS GETTING A LOT OF INFORMATION FROM SOURCES. AND DURING THE COURSE OF THE INVESTIGATION, I FOUND OUT THAT THE HEAD OF THE VETTED UNIT WAS PAID BY THE ORGANIZATION BASICALLY TO SUPPRESS THE CASE. STAND DOWN.

PENILEY: MCNICHOLS ALSO REPORTED THAT HIS INVESTIGATION INTO THE MISSING DRUGS WAS BEING BLOCKED.

MARIA: RIGHT. BUT ALSO WHAT HE SAYS IS THAT THE HEAD OF THE VETTED UNIT, AGAIN, VETTED BY THE DEA, THIS IS THE PERSON WHO WAS SUPPRESSING THE ENTIRE CASE.

KEITH MCNICHOLS: WHEN I FOUND THAT INFORMATION OUT I REPORTED TO MANAGEMENT AND THE SAME SECOND LINE SUPERVISOR —AND THIS IS DOCUMENTED— HE SAID, “HEY, WE DON’T WANT TO GET THEM NERVOUS AND RUIN THE RELATIONSHIP.” SO THEY RATHER DRUGS COME INTO THE UNITED STATES. SO THEY BASICALLY LOOK THE OTHER WAY AND THEY LABEL ME AS A TROUBLEMAKER. AND I WAS GIVEN HELL.

PENILEY: ACCORDING TO MIKE NICHOLS, HE WAS PUSHED TO TRANSFER OUT OF HAITI.  SO IN 2019, HE ACCEPTED TO BE TRANSFERRED TO COLOMBIA. AND THERE HE WAS ASSIGNED TO ADMINISTRATIVE DUTIES. HE COULDN’T EVEN GO INTO THE FIELD.

MARIA: SO THIS IS LIKE A DUDE WHO IS LIKE AN AGENT ON THE GROUND. HE’S TRANSFERRED TO COLOMBIA AND THEY’RE LIKE, “YEAH, YOU HAVE A DESK JOB.”

PENILEY: AND WHEN MCNICHOLS COMPLAINED, HE TOLD US THAT THEY ASSIGNED HIM TO HEAVY LABOR. THEY PUT HIM TO UNLOADING AND LOADING CARGO FROM PLANES. HIS BODY COULDN’T TAKE THAT WORK. SO IN 2021, HE RETIRED FROM THE DEA.

MARIA: DAMN.

PENILEY: SO AFTER WHAT HE SAW IN HAITI, MCNICHOLS CONTACTED THIS ORGANIZATION CALLED THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT AND HE BECAME A WHISTLEBLOWER. SINCE THEN HE’S BEEN REPRESENTED BY TOM DEVINE FROM THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT . WE ALSO INTERVIEWED HIM FOR THIS SERIES, AND HE SAID THAT TO HIM, THESE TYPES OF BEHAVIORS FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT INSTITUTIONS IN THE U.S., ACTUALLY, AREN’T UNCOMMON.

TOM DEVINE: WHEN A WHISTLEBLOWER THREATENS THE ORGANIZATION, IT LEADS TO PRETTY ALMOST STANDARDIZED TACTICS OF RETALIATION.

PENILEY: BUT DEVINE SAYS THAT WHISTLEBLOWERS ARE ESSENTIAL BECAUSE INSTITUTIONS LIKE THE DEA OR EVEN THE CIA OR THE FBI CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO HOLD THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE.

TOM DEVINE: THE DIFFERENT OFFICIALS WHO ARE TARGETS OF THE WHISTLEBLOWING DISCLOSURES, THEY’RE NO LONGER IN POSITIONS OF OFFICIAL POWER IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND, BUT NONE OF THEM HAVE BEEN PUNISHED. THAT WAY, THEY KEEP EVERYBODY HAPPY. AND THERE’S NO DETERRENCE AGAINST THE FUTURE CROOKS.

MARIA: SO IT’S LIKE A VICIOUS CYCLE.

PENILEY: SO IN JULY 2021, THE U.S. OFFICE OF THE SPECIAL COUNSEL REPRIMANDED THE HAITIAN OFFICE OF THE DEA FOR ITS HANDLING OF THE MANZANARES CASE, ALTHOUGH THE DEA SAID IT WAS ONLY MISMANAGEMENT.

MARIA: ALL RIGHT. GET THAT. MISMANAGEMENT. NOT CORRUPTION. MISMANAGEMENT.

TOM DEVINE: THERE’S POCKETS WHERE THE CORRUPTION IS UNRESTRAINED, LIKE MEXICO OR HAITI. DEA CIRCLES THE WAGONS AND COVERS UP ALL THAT CORRUPTION RATHER THAN HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A PUBLIC RELATIONS DISASTER FOR THEM IF WE ALL KNEW THAT THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT AGENTS ARE ACTUALLY DRUG TRAFFICKING LEADERS.

MARIA: WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE DEA. I MEAN, THE POSSIBILITY OF HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE. WHO IS HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE?

PENILEY: BASED ON THE RESEARCH WE HAVE DONE FOR THIS SERIES, SINCE 1991, AT LEAST 14 DEA AGENTS HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH DIFFERENT CRIMES, YOU KNOW, FROM BRIBERY AND THEFT TO DRUG TRAFFICKING. FOR EXAMPLE, IN DECEMBER OF 2021, AN EX-DEA AGENT WAS SENTENCED TO 12 YEARS IN PRISON AFTER PLEADING GUILTY FOR CONSPIRING TO LAUNDER $9 MILLION DOLLARS FROM A COLOMBIAN CARTEL.

MARIA: OKAY. $9 MILLION DOLLARS.

PENILEY: AND IT’S EVEN WORSE. HIS DEFENSE STATED TO THE PRESS THAT AFTER THIS AGENT JOINED THE DEA, HE WAS – AND I’M QUOTING – “SCHOOLED ON HOW TO BE CORRUPT,” YOU KNOW, MEANING THAT HE COULD LEARN HOW TO BE CORRUPT FROM THE DEA.

RECENTLY, THIS FORMER DEA AGENT, HIS NAME IS JOSE IRIZARRY, GAVE AN INTERVIEW TO THE ASSOCIATED PRESS. THIS IS WHAT HE SAID:

IRIZARRY: DEA IS A GAME. DRUG WAR IS A GAME. IT WAS A VERY FUN GAME THAT WE WERE PLAYING. THEY KIND OF PAINTED ME IN THIS PICTURE OF THAT I’M THIS MASTERMIND OF WHAT WE WERE DOING, AND I WASN’T THE MASTERMIND.”

MARIA: IT DOESN’T GET MORE DRAMATIC THAN THIS, AND YET, THINK ABOUT IT. YOU RARELY, IF EVER, HEAR STORIES ABOUT CORRUPTION – DEEP CORRUPTION – INSIDE THE DEA BECAUSE THEY’RE KIND OF PERCEIVED AS, LIKE, THE GOOD COPS OF THIS STORY.

PENILEY: RIGHT. AND AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, AFTER INVESTIGATING FOR THIS SERIES FOR MONTHS, WE ONLY FOUND 14 CASES OF DEA AGENTS PROSECUTED FOR CORRUPTION IN ABOUT 30 YEARS.

IN CONTRAST, JUST IN THE LAST THREE YEARS, OVER 900 CUSTOM AND BORDER PROTECTION AGENTS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED.

MARÍA: WOW. SO 14 PROSECUTED DEA AGENTS IN 30 YEARS VERSUS ALMOST A THOUSAND CASES FROM CUSTOM AND BORDER PROTECTION AGENTS IN THREE YEARS. THAT’S A BIG DIFFERENCE.

PENILEY: YEAH, AND I THINK THAT RAISES A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: BUT GOING BACK TO MEXICO, MARIA, I THINK THERE ARE STILL QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED WITH RESPECT TO THE DEA’S ROLE IN THE WAR ON DRUGS IN THAT COUNTRY.

MARIA: AND I’M SURE AT THIS POINT YOU’RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA. I MEAN, WE NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH AND WHEN EXACTLY DID THE DEA KNOW ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA’S ALLEGED INVOLVEMENT WITH THE DRUG CARTELS, WITH EL CHAPO, WITH THE SINALOA CARTEL? YOU KNOW, BUT WE ALSO EXPECT A CERTAIN DEGREE OF ACCOUNTABILITY FROM THE DEA TO KIND OF OWN UP TO ITS OWN ACTIONS IN MEXICO. I MEAN, THAT’S WHAT WE’RE ASKING FOR HERE, IS ACCOUNTABILITY.

PENILEY: YEAH. AND OF COURSE, AFTER ALL THESE TESTIMONIALS, WE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR THE DEA. SO WE ASKED THEM FOR AN INTERVIEW, BUT THEY DECLINED TO COMMENT.

MARIA: WHICH IS REALLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE AS JOURNALISTS, WE’RE ASKING QUESTIONS AND WE’RE ASKING FOR ACCOUNTABILITY. THAT’S OUR ROLE.

PENILEY: AND I THINK, MARIA, THAT WE NEEDED TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS IN THIS FINAL EPISODE, BECAUSE I DON’T THINK THE TRIAL IS GOING TO BE DEEP ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DEA’S BEHAVIOR OR THE DEA’S ROLE IN THIS CASE OR EVEN THE DRUG WAR IN GENERAL. THE TRIAL IS GOING TO BE MORE ABOUT, WHO TOOK THE BRIBE WHEN IT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, THIS NARCO TRIAL. BUT I THINK THAT FOR US IN FUTURO MEDIA, THIS TRIAL IS ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE, SOMETHING BIGGER THAN GARCÍA LUNA.

MARIA: YEAH, WE KNOW THAT YOU AND I MAY HAVE BEEN OBSESSED BY GENARO GARCÍA LUNA BECAUSE HE’S A VERY PARTICULAR AND INTERESTING CHARACTER. BUT IT’S NOT JUST HIM.

PENILEY: BEFORE WE END THIS SERIES, THIS FINAL EPISODE, THERE IS ONE MORE PLACE I THINK WE SHOULD GO, MARIA. AND ALSO, I HAVE ONE MORE REVELATION FOR YOU. SO WILL YOU GO WITH ME FOR A FINAL ROAD TRIP?

MARIA: I LOVE THAT WE DO THESE ROAD TRIPS FOR THE GARCÍA LUNA PODCAST, BUT I DO HAVE TO ASK, I DON’T KNOW WHERE WE’RE GOING. IS IT MEXICO? IS IT MIAMI? IS IT ANOTHER RAILROAD TRACKS IN QUEENS? OKAY, I WANNA KNOW. A DONDE VAMOS?

PENILEY: WELL, THIS TIME I WILL TELL YOU. WE ARE GOING TO BROOKLYN. BECAUSE I WANT YOU TO SEE WITH ME THE FEDERAL DETENTION CENTER WHERE GARCÍA LUNA HAS BEEN HELD FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS. THIS IS THE PLACE WHERE HE IS RIGHT NOW, WAITING FOR THE TRIAL.

MARIA: OH BOY. I DEFINITELY WANT TO SEE THIS.

PENILEY: YEAH, BUT BEFORE WE GO, WE NEED TO FINISH OUR TEQUILA.

MARIA: OKAY, ALL RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY.

PENILEY: SALUD.

MARIA: SALUD. ALL RIGHT. LET’S GO.

PENILEY: LET’S GO.

[MUSIC]

MARÍA: WE’RE ON EXIT 23 IN BROOKLYN. WE’RE ABLE TO SEE TO OUR RIGHT THIS MASSIVE CEMENT BUILDING. YOU IMMEDIATELY KNOW THAT IT’S A PRISON. AND THAT’S WHERE GARCÍA LUNA IS RIGHT NOW. OKAY. PENILEY, WHAT ARE YOU FEELING? TELL ME.

PENILEY: I DON’T KNOW. IT IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I’M GOING TO BE SO CLOSE TO HIM IN TEN YEARS. WE MET IN PERSON JUST ONE TIME BEFORE, JUST AFTER I PUBLISHED MY FIRST STORY ABOUT HIM. AND IN THAT MOMENT, HE WAS IN A PRESS CONFERENCE. I ASKED HIM A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT’S YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WEINBERG FAMILY. AND AT THAT POINT, HE LOOKED AT ME WITH THOSE COLD EYES THAT HE HAS, AND I WAS LIKE, FREAKED OUT FEELING, YOU KNOW, THAT EXCITEMENT THAT YOU HAVE AS A JOURNALIST IS WHEN YOU FACE THE POWER. AND I REMEMBERED I WAS SCREAMING AT HIM, “DO YOU HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WEINBERG FAMILY?” AND HE JUST LOOKED AT ME AND HE SAID, “THE CONFERENCE, IT’S FINISHED.” HE LEFT WITH A LOT OF BODYGUARDS. AND THAT’S THE ONLY TIME WE HAVE BEEN SO CLOSE UNTIL NOW.

[MUSIC]

PENILEY: SO, MARIA, WE ARE STANDING RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF THE METROPOLITAN DETENTION CENTER IN BROOKLYN. RIGHT NOW, AS WE SPEAK, GARCÍA LUNA IS HELD INSIDE THIS BUILDING AND HE’S AWAITING TRIAL. AND RIGHT NOW THE TRIAL, IT IS SCHEDULED FOR JUST A FEW WEEKS FROM NOW, AND WE DON’T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT THE LIFE INSIDE THIS PLACE. SO I WONDER, MARIA, HAVE YOU HEARD ANY DETAILS ABOUT HIS LIFE INSIDE THE PRISON? BECAUSE I HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO FIND OUT.

MARÍA: AS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS, WE LOOK FOR OUR SOURCES. AND SO I DID SPEAK TO SOMEONE. I ASKED HIM, HAVE YOU SEEN GARCÍA LUNA IN THIS BROOKLYN DETENTION FACILITY? AND THIS PERSON SAID, “YES.” AND THEN I SAID, “WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE? IS HE ON A FLOOR? IS HE IN THE BASEMENT? ANYTHING. JUST ANYTHING.” AND THIS PERSON SAID, “IF I SAID ANYTHING TO YOU ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA, I WOULD BE THE ONE THAT WOULD END UP BEING IN PRISON.” AND HE SAID, “AND THE NUMBER OF PAGES THAT I HAD TO SIGN IN ORDER TO JUST BE IN ANY PROXIMITY TO GARCÍA LUNA,” HE SAID, “IT WAS EXTRAORDINARY.” I GUESS THEY’RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT HERE AT THIS FEDERAL DETENTION FACILITY WHERE HE’S HELD THAT GARCÍA LUNA HAS NO OPPORTUNITY WHATSOEVER TO ATTEMPT TO CORRUPT ANYONE.

PENILEY: AND ACTUALLY, MARIA, THE LAST REVELATION I WANT TO GIVE YOU IS THAT MAYBE THERE IS NO TRIAL AT ALL.

MARÍA: WAIT, THAT’S A VERY BIG DROP. WAIT, YOU’RE SAYING THAT ALL OF THIS, ALL OF OUR REPORTING, THE FACT THAT HE’S BEEN HELD IN FEDERAL DETENTION HERE IN BROOKLYN FOR THREE YEARS AND ALL OF THIS MAY LEAD TO HIM NOT HAVING A TRIAL?

PENILEY: YEAH. THE THING IS THAT ACCORDING TO OUR SOURCES, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE ATTORNEY’S OFFICE AND GARCÍA LUNA’S DEFENSE REACH AN AGREEMENT. AND IF THAT HAPPENS, THE ONLY THING THAT OUR DEAR LISTENER WILL KNOW ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA ARE THE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE HEARD IN THIS PODCAST. SO MAYBE WE WILL NEVER KNOW, WAS HE REALLY CORRUPT? WAS HE REALLY TAKING BRIBES? WAS THE DEA INVOLVED AT SOME POINT?

MARÍA: BECAUSE IF THERE’S A PLEA DEAL, IT MEANS THAT HE NEVER HAS TO SAY ANYTHING PUBLICLY UNDER OATH TO ANYONE.

PENILEY: YEAH, WE KNOW FROM OUR SOURCES THAT THERE IS A LOT OF PRESSURE.

MARÍA: WELL, WHO’S PRESSURING HIM? WHEN YOU SAY THAT, YOU SAY THERE’S A LOT OF PRESSURE.

PENILEY: THE NEW YORK ATTORNEY’S OFFICE, BECAUSE A TRIAL IS REALLY EXPENSIVE. IT IS MUCH BETTER FOR THE PROSECUTOR TO REACH A PLEA, AND THAT PLEA CAN BE ACHIEVED AT ANY MOMENT. SO IT COULD BE NOW. IT COULD BE THE DAY BEFORE THE TRIAL. IT COULD BE EVEN DURING THE TRIAL.

MARÍA: AND LET’S JUST TAKE A MOMENT TO TALK EXACTLY ABOUT WHAT A PLEA DEAL LOOKS LIKE. ESSENTIALLY, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON’T KNOW, WHEN THE GOVERNMENT BELIEVES THAT IT HAS A REALLY STRONG CASE, IT SOMETIMES CAN OFFER DEFENDANTS A PLEA DEAL. AND THAT WAY THE DEFENDANT AVOIDS A TRIAL AND A JURY AND INSTEAD IS SENTENCED BY A JUDGE. BUT I — I DON’T KNOW. DO YOU THINK HE WANTS TO TAKE A PLEA? DO YOU THINK HE’LL BE PREPARED TO SAY, “SOY CULPABLE, I’M GUILTY?”

PENILEY: WHAT I KNOW FROM, YOU KNOW, ALL THE DEEP UNDERSTANDING THAT I THINK I HAVE FROM THIS PERSON RIGHT NOW IS THAT HE DOESN’T WANT TO PLEA. HE WANTS TO FIGHT.

WE SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS EPISODE THAT THIS STORY IS NOT ENDED YET. AND AS WE ARE HERE, STANDING IN FRONT OF THE DETENTION CENTER, WE ARE ENDING THIS PODCAST WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING HOW THIS STORY IS GOING TO END, BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW AT THIS POINT IF THERE IS GOING TO BE A TRIAL OR IF THERE IS GOING TO BE NO TRIAL AT ALL. SO, ESTÁ HISTORIA NO HA TERMINADO.

[MUSIC]

MARÍA: BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, DEAR LISTENER, BECAUSE WE NOW KNOW THAT YOU’RE OBSESSED WITH GARCÍA LUNA, YOU CAN COUNT ON THE FACT THAT WE’RE GOING TO BE WATCHING THIS STORY, AND YOU CAN COUNT THAT USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA, WE’RE NOT DONE YET EITHER. WE’RE NOT DONE YET. IN MANY WAYS, WE’RE JUST BEGINNING.

CREDITS: USA VERSUS GARCÍA LUNA IS AN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION BY FUTURO INVESTIGATES, A DIVISION OF FUTURO MEDIA IN COLLABORATION WITH LATINO USA. LEMONADA MEDIA IS OUR ADVERTISING AND DISTRIBUTION PARTNER.

OUR HOSTS ARE MARIA HINOJOSA AND PENILEY RAMÍREZ, EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS OF FUTURO UNIDAD HINOJOSA, THE INVESTIGATIONS AND SPECIAL PROJECTS DIVISION OF FUTURO MEDIA.

THIS SERIES IS EDITED BY ANDREA LÓPEZ-CRUZADO. OUR ASSOCIATE PRODUCERS ARE ROXANA AGUIRRE, SOFÍA SÁNCHEZ AND OSCAR DE LEON.

FACT CHECKING BY AMY TARDIF.

SPECIAL THANKS TO STEVEN DUDLEY, CO-FOUNDER OF INSIGHT CRIME, AND SANHO TREE, DIRECTOR OF THE DRUG POLICY PROJECT AT THE INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES.

NANCY TRUJILLO AND RAUL PEREZ-HINOJOSA ARE OUR PROJECT MANAGERS.

OUR ENGINEERS ARE STEPHANIE LEBOW, JULIA CARUSO AND LEAH SHAW DAMERON.

ORIGINAL THEME SONG BY JACOB ROSATI.

THIS SERIES WAS MADE POSSIBLE WITH SUPPORT FROM THE W.K. KELLOGG FOUNDATION, CHAN ZUCKERBERG INITIATIVE AND HISPANICS IN PHILANTHROPY.

YOU CAN LISTEN TO “USA V. GARCÍA LUNA” WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS AND ON OUR WEBSITE: FUTUROINVESTIGATES.ORG — THAT’S FUTURO INVESTIGATES DOT-O-R-G.

VISIT OUR SITE TO FIND MORE INFORMATION ON “USA V. GARCÍA LUNA”.

WE CONTACTED OR ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT ALL THE INDIVIDUALS AND ENTITIES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE. SOME COULD NOT BE REACHED OR DECLINED TO COMMENT, AND OTHERS DID NOT REPLY TO OUR EMAILS OR PHONE CALLS. THE ANSWERS WE DID RECEIVE ARE INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE.

The work of Futuro Investigates is made possible by the W.K.Kellogg Foundation, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, the Tow Foundation, the Geraldine H. Dodge Foundation, Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden, and Hispanics in Philanthropy.

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