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USA V. GARCÍA LUNA

EPISODE 12. A BROKEN SYSTEM

PRODUCED BY FUTURO INVESTIGATES AND LATINO USA, IN PARTNERSHIP WITH LEMONADA MEDIA. 

[FUTURO SONIC ID]

[FUTURO INVESTIGATES SONIC ID]

MARIA: OKAY. THAT’S RIGHT. WE GOT OUR LITTLE TEQUILITA. IT HAS BEEN SO LONG. OKAY. HELLO, EVERYBODY. IT’S MARIA HINOJOSA.

PENILEY: AND THIS IS PENILEY RAMIREZ. WELCOME BACK.

MARIA: WE ARE BACK. OYE, PENILEY. IT HAS BEEN SO LONG. I DON’T KNOW, TOO MANY LONG MONTHS SINCE THE LAST TIME WE SAT TOGETHER AND DRANK OUR LITTLE TEQUILITA FOR OUR USA VS. GARCÍA LUNA SERIES. I’VE MISSED YOU!

PENILEY: IT’S BEEN OVER A YEAR, MARÍA. EPISODE 11 WAS RELEASED IN MARCH OF 2023. AND WE WERE SUPPOSED TO MEET, YOU KNOW, SOONER, BUT OF COURSE IT HASN’T HAPPENED.

MARIA: AND THE REASON WHY IT HASN’T HAPPENED IS BECAUSE EVERYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE USA VS. GARCÍA LUNA TRIAL IS ALWAYS VERY DRAMATIC. LIKE, AGAIN. VERY TELENOVELA BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IS THAT LAST YEAR IN JUNE, AFTER THE TRIAL ENDED, WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A SENTENCING HEARING, BUT GUESS WHAT, DEAR LISTENER, THE SENTENCING HEARING HAS BEEN MOVED TO SINCE JUNE OF 2023, IT’S BEEN RESCHEDULED A TOTAL OF FIVE TIMES.

IN FACT, WE WERE GETTING READY TO DROP THIS EPISODE BACK IN JULY OF THIS YEAR. AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IT GOT RESCHEDULED AGAIN FOR OCTOBER 9TH, AND THEN IT GOT RESCHEDULED ONE MORE TIME. BUT THERE WAS A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER STUFF THAT HAPPENED TOO, PENI.

PENILEY: YES, IT WAS MOVED TO OCTOBER BECAUSE FOR MANY MONTHS WE WERE AWAITING FOR A DECISION BECAUSE GARCIA LUNA’S LAWYERS REQUESTED A NEW TRIAL.

AND WHAT THEY SAID, BASICALLY, WAS THAT THE PROSECUTORS AND SOME OF THE LAWYERS THE WITNESSES IN THE CASE HAD, QUOTE, INAPPROPRIATE COMMUNICATIONS BEFORE THE TRIAL. BUT THE JUDGE ALREADY DECIDED THAT, NO, THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A NEW TRIAL.

MARIA: RIGHT. RIGHT NOW, ULTIMATELY, THE DATE IS GOING TO BE WHEN, PENILEY?

PENILEY: IT’S OCTOBER 16TH, 2024.

MARIA: BUT, LET’S JUST SAY, PARENTHESES. IT COULD MOVE AGAIN, THOUGH, RIGHT?

PENILEY: WELL, MARIA, WITH THIS CASE, WE NEVER KNOW.

MARIA: BECAUSE, LOOK, UM, GENARO GARCIA LUNA, ESSENTIALLY NOW, IS FACING A MANDATORY, MANDATORY MINIMUM PRISON SENTENCE OF 20 YEARS. IF THEY GO FOR THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED IN TERMS OF SENTENCING, HE COULD SPEND THE REST OF HIS LIFE BEHIND BARS.

UNLESS, OF COURSE, THE DEFENSE APPEALS THAT DECISION, WHICH WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN, SO WHO KNOWS ABOUT ANOTHER POSTPONEMENT.

PENILEY: YEAH, BUT THE THING, MARIA, IS WHO COULD HAVE IMAGINED THIS? YOU SHOULD REMEMBER THAT GARCÍA LUNA HAD A LOT OF POWER. SO THIS IS SOMETHING REMARKABLE, SOMETHING TO REALLY THINK ABOUT.

MARIA: GARCÍA LUNA, AS PENI JUST SAID, WAS THE SUPER POWERFUL HEAD OF PUBLIC SECURITY IN MEXICO FROM THE YEARS 2006 TO 2012. HE WAS, AS YOU KNOW, A VERY CLOSE ALLY FRIEND, BFF OF THE DEA, AND HE WAS ALSO CLOSE FRIEND ALLY, BFF OF THE INFAMOUS DRUG, LORD EL CHAPMAN. AND. GARCIA LUNA WAS CONVICTED IN FEBRUARY OF 2023 IN A FEDERAL COURT IN NEW YORK CITY OF FIVE COUNTS, INCLUDING ENGAGING IN A CONTINUING CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE KNOWN AS THE SINALOA CARTEL, WHICH IS STILL VERY ACTIVE, PENILEY.

PENILEY: SO WHAT WE LEARNED WHEN WE COVERED THESE FOUR WEEKS OF THE TRIAL IS THAT GARCIA LUNA WAS INVOLVED WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE. WE HAVE A LOT OF TESTIMONIES, DOCUMENTS, AND 30 WITNESSES. AND ONE OF THEM, YOU WILL REMEMBER HIM, MARIA. IT’S THIS GUY CALLED JESUS EL REY ZAMBADA. HE’S A FORMER TOP RANKING OPERATIVE OF THE SINALOA CARTEL.

HE’S, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY ONE OF THE LEADERS OF THE CARTEL. AND WHAT HE EXPLAINED IS THAT IN THE YEARS WHEN GARCÍA LUNA WAS IN POWER, THIS IS IN THE FELIPE CALDERÓN’S ADMINISTRATION, 2006 FROM 2012. ZAMBADA WAS, YOU KNOW, RUNNING, WE WILL CALL IT, A DELIVERY SERVICE.

SO THEY WERE RECEIVING THE COCAINE IN THE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT OF MEXICO CITY AND THEY WERE MOVING THE DRUGS FROM THERE. OF COURSE, WITH THE HELP OF THE FEDERAL POLICE, WHILE GARCIA LUNA WAS ALSO IN CHARGE OF THAT POLICE. AND THEN, YOU WILL REMEMBER, DURING THE TRIAL, I INTERVIEWED A NEW SOURCE THAT CLAIMED THAT THE DEA HAD TAPES OF GARCIA LUNA NEGOTIATING WITH THE NARCOS. SO WITH THESE TAPES THAT, IT’S IMPORTANT, THEY WERE NEVER INTRODUCED DURING THE TRIAL, MY SOURCE CLAIMS THAT THE U.S. GAVE GARCIA LUNA INFORMATION ABOUT RIVAL CARTELS OF THE SINALOA CARTEL TO TRY TO CATCH HIM. BUT, THEY NEVER BROUGHT IT TO THE TRIAL.

MARIA: ES ASÍ, PENILEY, YOUR SOURCES CLAIMED, THAT AMERICANS KNEW ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA’S DEALINGS FOR YEARS. BUT NOTHING HAPPENED TO GARCÍA LUNA. I MEAN, THEY SAY THEY KNEW, BUT THE GUY WAS INTOCABLE, UNTOUCHABLE, AGAIN, YOUR FAVORITE WORD.

PENILEY: AND NOT JUST IN MEXICO, BECAUSE IN THOSE YEARS, YOU KNOW, WHEN GARCÍA LUNA WAS HAVING THIS SIDE JOB WORKING FOR THE SINALOA CARTEL, AND HE APPEARED IN PICTURES WITH THESE SUPER HIGH U. S. OFFICIALS. YOU WILL REMEMBER, LIKE HILLARY CLINTON, WHEN SHE WAS THE SECRETARY OF STATE, AND EVEN PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA WHEN HE WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

MARIA:YES, AND MY DEAR LISTENER, IN THIS EPISODE, WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO EXPLAIN WHY, WHY DID THE DEA FAIL TO SHARE THIS CRUCIAL INFORMATION THAT THEY HAD ABOUT GARCIA LUNA WITH US OFFICIALS, INCLUDING THE AMBASSADOR TO MEXICO. WE’RE GOING TO HEAR FROM A FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL WHO ARGUES THAT A BROKEN CHAIN OF COMMAND IS TO BE BLAMED FOR THE FACT THAT THEY HAD THIS INFORMATION ABOUT GARCIA LUNA, BUT THEY WEREN’T SHARING IT.

PENILEY: MARIA, DO YOU REMEMBER SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLEY FROM IOWA?

MARIA: OF COURSE, WE REMEMBER SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLEY, AND THAT’S BECAUSE WE MENTIONED HIM ON OUR LAST EPISODE OF USA VERSUS GARCIA LUNA, BECAUSE YES, THE REPUBLICAN SENATOR, THE SENIOR SENATOR WROTE A LETTER TO THE FBI AND TO THE DEA, AND IN HIS LETTER SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLEY CITED OUR SERIES RIGHT. BASICALLY, IT WAS OUR SERIES THAT, IN PART, MOTIVATED SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLEY TO ASK FOR AN INVESTIGATION WITHIN THE SENATE TO FIGURE OUT JUST HOW IT WAS THAT GARCÍA LUNA WAS ABLE TO MAINTAIN HIS POSITION, EVEN THOUGH THERE WERE ALL OF THESE WARNING SIGNS THAT HE MIGHT BE WORKING FOR EL MERO MERO CHAPO.

PENILEY: AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, HE WAS NOT JUST VOICING HIS CONCERN TO THE DEA AND THE SENATE. HE ALSO MADE, IN SEPTEMBER OF 2023, A VIDEO, PUBLIC VIDEO ABOUT THIS, AND HE POSTED IT ON HIS YOUTUBE CHANNEL.

SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLEY: U. S. GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TURNED A BLIND EYE, LET ME EMPHASIZE THAT, A BLIND EYE TO RAMPANT CORRUPTION WITHIN THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT.

MARIA: OKAY. AND SO SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLEY, WE HAVE BEEN IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU. THIS IS WHAT WE’VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.

PENILEY: AND THAT’S RIGHT, MARIA, BECAUSE JUST IN TWO YEARS, FROM 2008 TO 2010, THE UNITED STATES SENT 1. 5 BILLION TO MEXICO. SO THIS MONEY WAS SUPPOSED TO BE USED, YOU KNOW, IT’S MONEY FROM THE U.S. TAXPAYERS TO COMBAT THE DRUGS FROM COMING TO THE UNITED STATES. BUT INSTEAD OF THAT, WHAT WAS HAPPENING IS THAT GARCÍA LUNA AND OTHER PEOPLE, BECAUSE IT’S UNLIKELY THAT IT WAS JUST HIM, WERE USING THAT MONEY TO ENRICH THEMSELVES AND ALSO TO HELP THE CARTELS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CASE, WHAT GRASSLEY IS TRYING TO SAY AND WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ALSO SAY IS THAT THE DEA NEGLECTED TO INFORM THE U.S. OFFICIALS AT LEAST ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON IN MEXICO. SO HERE IS GRASSLEY AGAIN.

SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLEY: HER MESSAGE FROM HISTORY IS VERY CLEAR. U. S. POLICY ON DRUG ENFORCEMENT IN MEXICO IS NOT WORKING. OUR OWN FEDERAL AGENCIES MUST LEARN FROM THE PAST AND CORRECT THEIR MISTAKES.

MARIA: AND I’M SORRY, WE’RE GOING TO REPEAT IT AGAIN BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN BRINGING UP IN OUR SERIES FOR OVER A YEAR NOW, UH, THAT THE CURRENT U.S. POLICY OR STRATEGY TO COMBAT DRUG TRAFFICKING, ESSENTIALLY. IS NOT WORKING. ESSENTIALLY, WE’RE, WE’RE BEING SOLD A BILL OF GOODS, RIGHT?

O SEA, AS WE SAY IN ENGLISH, UN DICHO, A LITTLE SAYING, THE WRITING WAS ON THE WALL. CÓMO SE DICE ESO EN ESPAÑOL? ESTABA EN TU CARA, MIJA. IT WAS IN YOUR FACE, MIJA. NOW, DEAR LISTENER, ACCORDING TO A RECENT REPORT BY THE DEA, THE SINALOA CARTEL, WHICH AS YOU KNOW, EL CHAPO LED, AND WHICH GARCIA LUNA HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF COLLABORATING WITH, IS NOW OPERATING IN ALL 50 US STATES. YES, YOU HEARD IT CORRECTLY. THE SINALOA CARTEL IS ALIVE AND WELL AND OPERATING IN ALL 50 US STATES.

PENILEY: YES, AND THE REALITY, MARIA, IS THAT IF YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE WAR ON DRUGS ON BOTH SIDES, THIS IS REALLY NOT SURPRISING. AND RIGHT NOW, THIS HISTORIC LEADER OF THE SINALOA HE IS HERE IN A MAXIMUM PRISON IN THE UNITED STATES.

MARIA: AND IS HE SENTENCED TO LIFE? YES, HE IS. BUT IN MEXICO, WHAT’S BEEN HAPPENING IN RECENT YEARS IS THAT SOME OF THE SONS OF EL CHAPO HAVE BEEN KIND OF CENTER STAGE. WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

PENILEY: YES. NOW THEY’RE KNOWN AS LOS CHAPITOS BECAUSE THEY’RE EL CHAPO’S SONS. BUT YOU KNOW, THESE CHAPITOS WHO ARE LIKE THE NEW GENERATION NOW, ACCORDING TO THE INDICTMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES, THEY ARE.

FULLY IN BUSINESS THEMSELVES, AND I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING SEVERAL INDICTMENTS AGAINST THEM IN DIFFERENT STATES OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THEY HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF BASICALLY RUNNING NOW THE FENTANYL BUSINESS. AND, YOU KNOW, MARIA, THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM RIGHT NOW IN THE UNITED STATES, FENTANYL. AND WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF IS OF BRINGING A LOT OF FENTANYL.

SO LAST YEAR, OVIDIO GUZMAN, WHO IS ONE OF THESE [00:11:00] CHAPITOS, WAS DETAINED IN MEXICO. HE WAS THEN EXTRADITED TO THE UNITED STATES IN SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR, AND HE’S NOW IN A LEGAL PROCESS. HE HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY AWAITING TRIAL, BUT ALSO THERE ARE SOME DISCUSSION AROUND A POSSIBLE COLLABORATION WITH THE UNITED STATES, AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

MARIA: OOH, DUN DUN DUN DUN! COOPERATING WITNESS, CHAPITO! MM, OKAY.

PENILEY: BUT, WHERE DO YOU THINK HE IS, MARIA?

MARIA: LET ME GUESS. CHICAGO!

PENILEY: YES, HE’S, HE’S AWAITING TRIAL IN CHICAGO.

SO WE WILL SEE IF HE’S GONNA FIT IN. BASED TRIAL IN CHICAGO, OR IF HE’S GOING TO COOPERATE, BUT SOMETHING ELSE TO ADD TO THIS, MARIA, THAT JUST HAPPENED THIS LAST SUMMER WAS THAT ANOTHER SHAPITO IS IN THE UNITED STATES, BECAUSE IN JULY OF THIS YEAR, JOAQUIN GUZMAN LOPEZ.

BROTHER OF OVIDIO GUZMAN, THE ONE I JUST MENTIONED, WAS ARRESTED IN TEXAS. AND HE WENT TO THE UNITED STATES IN A PLANE FROM MEXICO AND HE WAS NOT ALONE. HE WAS NADA MÁS Y NADA MENOS WITH THE OTHER CO FOUNDER OF THE SINALOA CARTEL. AND THIS IS ISMAEL EL MAYO ZAMBADA.

MARIA: OKAY. BECAUSE THE TELENOVELA CANNOT CONTINUE EVEN MORE INTENSELY. IT’S LIKE THIS IS WRITTEN FOR TELEVISION, NOT LAUGHING ABOUT THE SITUATION, BUT IT IS A TELENOVELA, PENI.

PENILEY: YES. RIGHT NOW, EL MAYO WAS MOVED FROM TEXAS TO NEW YORK, AND NOW HE’S GOING TO BE FACING TRIAL IN NEW YORK IN FRONT OF THE SAME JUDGE COGGAN THAT WAS IN CHARGE OF FIRST EL CHAPO’S TRIAL AND THEN GARCIA LUNA’S TRIAL.

MARIA: AND ALSO. DING, DING, DING, DING. THERE’S A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL BECAUSE NOW EL MAYO ZAMBADA AND GENARO GARCIA LUNA ARE STAYING IN THE SAME PLACE. THEY ARE BOTH IN THE FEDERAL DETENTION FACILITY THAT IS IN BROOKLYN.

AND A LOT OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED, YOU KNOW, IF THE DEA. HAD SHARED INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE NOW THAT WE ACTUALLY KNOW THAT THEY HAD. AND THAT THAT INFORMATION WAS THAT GARCIA LUNA WAS INVOLVED WITH THE CARTEL IS, AND THEY DIDN’T SHARE IT WITH THE U S AUTHORITIES AND THEY DIDN’T SHARE IT WITH THE MEXICAN AUTHORITIES.

SO DEAR LISTENER. WE ALSO WANT TO BRING IN PEOPLE TO HELP US UNDERSTAND THIS STORY AND THAT CAN SHED SOME LIGHT ON SOME OF THE INNER WORKINGS OF ALL OF THIS.

SO PENI AND I RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH A GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF JOHN FEELY. HE’S A FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL AND A FORMER AMBASSADOR. TO PANAMA.

AND HERE IS PART OF OUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. JOHN FEELY.

MARIA: DO YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HEARD THE NAME GENARO GARCIA LUNA? WHAT WAS THAT FIRST TIME?

JOHN FEELEY: MY FIRST IMPRESSION WAS, THIS IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF MEXICAN COP. GARCIA LUNA WAS SOMEBODY WHO UNDERSTOOD THAT YOU HAD TO LAY THE BUILDING BLOCKS OF WHAT’S CALLED MYSTICA, MEANING, AND I SAY THIS AS A MARINE, YOU HAVE TO BUILD ESPRIT DE CORPS. YOU HAVE TO MAKE POLICE MEN AND WOMEN PROUD OF WHAT THEY DO, PROUD OF BELONGING.AND HE DID THAT.

PENILEY: YES, AND THIS CONFIRMS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SHARING WITH OUR LISTENER IN THIS SERIES, MARIA, THAT GARCIA LUNA LOVED TO WORK ON HIS PUBLIC IMAGE. HE WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE KNEW WHO HE WAS AND, IN THEORY, ALL THE GREAT THINGS THAT HE WAS DOING TO COMBAT CRIME IN MEXICO.

MARIA: AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN OTHER EPISODES. WE TALKED ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA’S OBSESSION WITH NONE OTHER THAN 007, JAMES BOND.

PENILEY: YES, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE WERE THESE RUMORS THAT GARCÍA LUNA HAD CLOSE TIES WITH THE CARTELS. AND NOW WE HAVE AN IMPORTANT CONFIRMATION THAT THE DEA TAKING NOTICE ABOUT IT. WE ASKED, OF COURSE, JOHN PHILLY ABOUT IT, AND THIS IS WHAT HE SAID.

JOHN FEELEY: THE RUMOR WAS THAT THERE WAS ONE GUY WHO ALLEGED THAT HE HAD PUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY INTO A SAFE HOUSE SOMEWHERE, I HONESTLY FORGET, AND THAT THIS WAS MONEY THAT WAS BEING HELD, SUPPOSEDLY, TO BE TRANSFERRED TO GARCÍA LUNA. WE HAVE INTEL REPORT THAT GARCÍA LUNA IS ON A CARTEL PAYROLL AND WE’RE GOING TO RUN IT TO GROUND.

MARIA: AND SO WHEN FEELY SAYS YOU GOT TO RUN THIS TO THE GROUND, IT MEANS TO GO DOWN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND. AND FIND OUT WHICH OFFICER RECEIVED THIS INFORMATION AND HOW ACCURATE IT WAS.

PENILEY: RIGHT. AND ACCORDING TO PHILLY, THIS INFORMATION, QUOTE, COULD NOT BE SUBSTANTIATED. AND IF YOU DON’T HAVE SUPPORT FOR THE RUMOR, THEN YOU CANNOT START THE PROSECUTION.

MARIA: CORRECT, PENI. BUT AT SOME POINT THE DEA DID IN FACT FIND THAT EVIDENCE, BUT THEY JUST KEPT ON WORKING WITH GARCIA LUNA.

PENILEY: YES, MARIA, IN ORDER TO PROSECUTE GARCÍA LUNA, THE EVIDENCE HAD TO MEET THE U. S. RULES FOR JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS, SO THAT EVERY DEFENDANT COULD AFFORD A LEGITIMATE DEFENSE.

MARIA: WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY THE DEA KEPT WHAT THEY KNEW ABOUT GARCÍA LUNA TO THEMSELVES. I MEAN, THEY WERE PROBABLY THINKING LIKE, OH, THIS DOESN’T MEET A LEGAL STANDARD. OH, THIS IS GOING TO BE LIKE A LEGAL PROBLEM, CHILD. EH. WE’LL JUST KEEP THIS LITTLE INFORMATION TO OURSELVES.

PENIELY: AND WHAT IS AMAZING TO ME, MARIA, IS THAT AT SOME POINT THE DEA KNEW THINGS. THAT THEY DIDN’T COMMUNICATE EVEN TO THE U.S. AMBASSADOR TO MEXICO. AND THE AMBASSADOR IS, OF COURSE, THE HIGHEST RANKING MEMBER OF THE U. S. GOVERNMENT IN THE COUNTRY, IN THIS CASE, IN MEXICO.

MARIA: AND NOW, DEAR LISTENER, TAKE A GOOD LISTEN, BECAUSE HERE’S FEELEY ONCE AGAIN EXPLAINING HOW IT IS THAT THE DEA OFFICERS OPERATE, IN FACT, OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES, AND WHY THIS IS PART OF WHAT IS BROKEN IN THE SYSTEM.

JOHN FEELEY: THEY ARE RAISED IN A BUREAUCRATIC CULTURE. THEY SPEND THE FIRST 15 TO 20 YEARS OF THEIR CAREER AS A SPECIAL AGENT WORKING THE STREETS OF TOPEKA, OR EL PASO, OR MINNEAPOLIS, WHERE THEY HAVE JURISDICTION. WHEN THEY GO OVERSEAS, THEY ARE NO LONGER THEY ACT AS ADVISORS TO THE MEXICAN POLICE AND THEY PROVIDE THEM WITH INFORMATION, INTELLIGENCE, BUT THEY ARE NOT OPERATORS IN MEXICO.

BUT THEY STILL OPERATE WITH A MENTALITY OF THE END STATE GOAL SHOULD BE A CONVICTION IN A U. S. COURT. NOT THAT THE END STATE GOAL SHOULD BE A WHOLE OF GOVERNMENT IMPROVEMENT IN MEXICO’S CAPABILITY TO IMPLEMENT ITS OWN RULE OF LAW. EVERYBODY WHO WORKS OVERSEAS IS NOT A STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE. THEY ARE EMPLOYEES OF THEIR HOME AGENCIES BACK IN WASHINGTON,

BUT WHEN THEY ARE ASSIGNED OVERSEAS, THEY ALL FALL UNDER WHAT IS CALLED CHIEF OF MISSION AUTHORITY. UNDER THAT, THOSE AGENCIES ALL HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP THE AMBASSADOR APPRISED OF WHAT THEY’RE DOING. AND BIG THINGS, YOU KNOW, HEY, ONE OF MY GUYS JUST HEARD THAT OUR WHITE KNIGHT, OUR TOP COP, UH, HAS BEEN ON THE PAYROLL OF EL CHAPO SINCE 2006? YEAH, YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD WANT TO COME UP AND TELL US THAT. WHY DIDN’T THEY? BECAUSE OF THEIR BUREAUCRATIC CULTURE.

MARIA: I’M SORRY, I’M GOING TO INTERRUPT. I’M GOING TO CALL SOME BULLSHIT.

JOHN FEELEY: GO AHEAD AND CALL IT.

MARIA: I’M JUST GOING TO CALL SOME BULLSHIT.

MARIA: OH DEAR LISTENER, I’M SO SORRY ABOUT THAT EXPLICIT LANGUAGE. ACTUALLY, I’M NOT AT ALL. BECAUSE I CALL BULLSHIT WHEN I CALL BULLSHIT.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE DEA KNEW WHAT GARCÍA LUNA WAS DOING, AND NO ONE COULD SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I MEAN, ALL OF OUR TAX DOLLARS GOING INTO THIS. THIS ORGANIZATION THAT IS ALLEGEDLY SO RESPECTED, THE DEA, I MEAN IT’S JUST APPALLING THAT THE DEA, OPERATING WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS, DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

OKAY, ONCE AGAIN, HERE’S WHAT JOHN FEELEY HAD TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

JOHN FEELEY: HE WORKS IN A CHAIN OF COMMAND, OKAY? AND HIS CHAIN OF COMMAND GOES BACK TO AN AUSA, AN ASSISTANT U. S. ATTORNEY, WHO’S MAKING A CASE. THE ASSISTANT U. S. ATTORNEY DOESN’T WANT THAT INFORMATION SHARED. THIS IS THE HARDEST PART. THIS IS A STRUCTURAL PROBLEM. PROBLEM WITH THE 96 INDEPENDENT U. S. ATTORNEYS AND THE WAY THEIR AUSAS, THEIR ASSISTANT U. S. ATTORNEYS WORK, AND THE WAY WE, THE U. S. GOVERNMENT WRIT LARGE, PROSECUTE LAW ENFORCEMENT CASES OVERSEAS.

PENILEY: HOW DOES THAT PLAY WITH YOU AND YOUR ABILITY TO PERFORM YOUR WORK? IF YOUR MAIN POINT OF CONTACT, YOUR MAIN ALLY IN THIS COUNTRY, IN THIS CASE MEXICO, IS SOMEONE THAT IS WORKING WITH A CARTEL AND YOU HAVE SOMEONE IN YOUR SAME BUILDING, WHO KNOWS THAT? HOW YOU CAN EXPLAIN THIS TO A TYPICAL AMERICAN U. S. TAXPAYER, THAT THIS IS HAPPENING WITHIN THE SAME BUILDING?

JOHN FEELEY: THE SHORT ANSWER, PENILEY, IS I CAN’T.

PENILEY: AND MARIA, I THINK THAT PHILLY’S ANSWER IS SHORT AND SIMPLE, BUT IT SAYS A LOT. BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS THAT A LOT OF THIS MAKES NO SENSE. PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING IN BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER, AND THIS IS ALSO DUE TO THE SILENCE OR LACK OF COMMUNICATION. THE REALITY IS THAT FOR THOSE WHO REMAIN QUIET, WE HAVEN’T SEEN ANY ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THEM.

MARIA: RIGHT. SO THAT QUESTION, DEAR LISTENER. WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY? RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW WHAT WE KEPT ON BRINGING UP DURING THE COVERAGE OF THE TRIAL AND WHY I THINK SO MANY OF YOU REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT WE’RE SAYING IS THAT THIS, THE GARCIA LUNA TRIAL IS NOT JUST A STORY ABOUT ONE CORRUPT MEXICAN GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL BEING TRIED IN A NEW YORK CITY COURT. NO. THIS IS ALSO. FOR US, FRANKLY, MAINLY A STORY ABOUT HOW THE U. S. FACILITATES AND PERPETUATES AND PARTICIPATES EXACTLY IN THIS KIND OF CORRUPTION.

PENILEY: YES, AND FEELEY, HE FEELS THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE AND HIS PROPOSAL IS WHOEVER IS THE NEXT U. S. PRESIDENT, ONCE THAT PERSON MEETS IN THIS, YOU KNOW, BIG MEETING WITH THE FBI, WITH THE CIA, WITH THE DEA, THEY NEED TO REMIND THAT PEOPLE THAT IF THEY ARE OUTSIDE, THEIR BOSS IS THE AMBASSADOR. SO IF THEY HAD INFORMATION, THEY NEED TO SHARE IT WITH THE AMBASSADOR, NOT JUST WITH THEIR SUPERIORS IN THE UNITED STATES.

MARIA: SO REALLY CHALLENGING THE NOTION OF CHAIN OF COMMAND AND GOING STRAIGHT TO THE TOP SO THAT I DON’T KNOW, THE AMBASSADOR DOESN’T GET INTO A PICTURE WITH GARCÍA LUNA AND THEN REGRET IT IF HE HAD ONLY BEEN TOLD ABOUT THAT INFORMATION.

LOOK, THE THING IS, IS THAT THE QUESTION OF ACCOUNTABILITY, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A BROKEN SYSTEM, DO YOU BASICALLY CREATE SITUATIONS WHERE ANOTHER GARCÍA LUNA CAN POP UP AND THRIVE AND GROW AND ONCE AGAIN MAKE A MOCKERY OF U. S. FOREIGN POLICY AT THE EXPENSE OF MEXICAN LIVES, OF AMERICAN LIVES, AND OF U.S. TAXPAYER MONEY, RIGHT?

WELL, ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN, THOUGH, AND THAT IS THAT GARCÍA LUNA IS SCHEDULED TO BE SENTENCED ON OCTOBER 16TH OF 2024, AND WE’RE GOING TO HAVE THAT FOR YOU IN OUR NEXT EPISODE.

PENILEY: SO AS MARIA ALWAYS SAYS, NO TE VAYAS, BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE AND MORE TO COME.

MARIA: DID YOU JUST TAKE MY LINE?

PENILEY: I’M JUST QUOTING YOU. I LOVE THAT. BUENO, ENTONCES HASTA LA PRÓXIMA, WHICH  MEANS IT’S TIME FOR OUR LITTLE TEQUILITA. SALUD, PENI.

PENILEY: SALUD MARIA.

CREDITS:

USA VERSUS GARCIA LUNA IS AN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION BY FUTURO INVESTIGATES IN COLLABORATION WITH LATINO USA, LEMONADA MEDIA IS OUR ADVERTISING AND DISTRIBUTION PARTNER.

OUR HOSTS ARE YOURS TRULY, MARIA HINOJOSA AND LA QUERIDA PENILE RAMIREZ, EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS OF FUTURO UNIDAD HINOJOSA, THE INVESTIGATIONS AND SPECIAL PROJECTS DIVISION OF FUTURO MEDIA.

OUR EPISODE WAS PRODUCED BY JUAN DIEGO RAMIREZ. OUR SERIES IS EDITED BY ANDREA LÓPEZ CRUZADO. OUR ASSOCIATE PRODUCER IS ROXANA AGUIRRE. FACT CHECKING BY ARTURO ÁNGEL.

NANCY TRUJILLO IS OUR PROJECT MANAGER.

MUSIC AND SCORING BY JACOB ROSATI. THIS EPISODE WAS MIXED BY STEPHANIE LEBEAU, JULIA CARUSO, AND GABRIELA PÁEZ.

OUR SERIES IS MADE POSSIBLE WITH THE SUPPORT FROM THE W. K. KELLOGG FOUNDATION, THE CHAN ZUCKERBERG INITIATIVE, THE TAO FOUNDATION, AND HISPANICS IN PHILANTHROPY.

YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE REST OF USA VS. GARCÍA LUNA TODAY, WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS, OR VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT FUTUROINVESTIGATES. ORG AGAIN, THAT’S FUTUROINVESTIGATES.ORG AND VISIT OUR SITE FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE DRAMATIC STORY OF USA VS. GARCÍA LUNA.

Y ACUÉRDATE, NO TE VAYAS.

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